RdWhteblur

Thnx guys I found my aftermarket clutch its from clutch masters, I should have it in a few weeks, I also have another question, Im looking to get more HP out of my car, Im already smoking Hondas and Neons down here but im looking for the next upgrade at low cost, I already have a thermal cat-back exhaust, Magnecor wires, a CAI from MHP, a stainless steel air filter and NGK spark plugs,should i go for the headers or the BBTB?

Random

Headers or BTB and BIM would either/both be good. They would both be a good addition to your current setup.

Since you already have a cat back, I'm voting for the headers, then go with the BTB and BIM at a later date.

Mario

My vote 100% headers

RdWhteblur

ok so on the headers which on is better the 4 to 1 or the 4-2-1, whats the differnce?

Mario

4-2-1 High torque less rpm
4-1 Higher rpm torque loss

For street fighting 4-2-1 unless you use a cam to compensate.

Red

Actually, that's not quite how it goes, and I must disagree with the selection of 4-2-1 header.

The loss of low-end torque on any header is primarly due to poor tuning. If a header isn't tuned right, it will lose power. A 4-2-1 header and a 4-1 header of exactly equal design will result in slightly more torque on the 4-2-1 model, but only *slightly*.

I have one of the HVE 4-1 mild steel headers, in concert with a whole host of other N/A upgrades.

With the MHP intake, header, and full exhaust, my car was able to idle in FOURTH GEAR and not complain. That is, I can get the car rolling just slightly in 1st (maybe 8mph) and then shift to 4th gear and it will just roll along without complaining. I can even accelerate OUT of 4th without the car complaining. Sure it accelerates a bit slowly, but the torque never went away.

In fact, on the dyno it made 120ft/lbs of torque at 2500 RPM's at the TIRES. That's raw unadjusted numbers too, not some made up number for this-and-that-percentage loss or whatever.

I suggest the HVE 4-1 extractor set, as they're inexpensive and they work REALLY well.

Mario

You said it the 4-2-1 has better torque at lower rpm. For racing you want higher rpm even though no big gain in torque looking for higher HP. For street fighting (short distance)I prefer low end torque, maybe less peak HP but better hp in the low and mid range end where short distance street fighting mostly happens.

Cam is also important, Tibby low end torque is weak as hell. I think on the other hand the tibby response at higher rpm is better. This is why I would reinforce my low end rather than my high end even though both are important.

Red

Yes, but for ANY racing you are in the high RPM's; think about it.

You don't race to 4000 RPM's and then shift! You race to 6500+ RPM's and THEN you shift. When you run to 6500 and shift, you bounce back down to 4800 or thereabouts, and you continue going.

What good is another 1.2 lb/ft of torque going to do you at 2000 RPM's if you're racing? Absolutely nothing. Even your launch should be at 3K or above, so you have absolutely no use for "low end torque" if you're street racing OR if you're drag racing.

Now, if you're doing autocross, it's a totally different story.

-Red-

Mario

2000rpm? it is a range not a point. Any way I like low-midrange torque for the way I drive and street race, only 100-200 meters at the most.

Mario

This is Random´s quote referring to headers, make a search and find the discussion. Not mine but we think in the same lines. Get low'midrange torque the Tibby needs it, believe it.