Sharkracing 268 Intake/exhaust Cam Install
06-02-2007, 05:07 AM
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Yesterday after work I decided to install the Shark Racing Camshafts. I printed out the DIY for the 1.8L intake cam, it's been awhile since I have tore into the head. I folloed the directions rather thoroughly, making sure that the exhaust camshafts white dot was at top dead center with the cam shaft, and there were five links between the intake and exhaust camshaft. Everything went smoothly until I went to go start the car. It wouldn't start at all. Thinking to myself you missed something small, go back and look, I doublechecked everything, but it sounded as it the engine was not getting any compression.
Being that I did this swap in the street in front of my parents house, I jacked up the right side of the cam and took the wheel off to see where the crank pulley was at. After looking at Patreezy's DIY about the timing belt install, the notch for the pulley should face 9AM for the crank pulley to be at top dead center. So, After realigning both the camshaft gear and the crankshaft gear again. I tried to start the car again, and nothing, same situation, sounded like the engine had zero compression.
After talking to Dave about this extensivley, he suggested that I may have the crank 180 degrees out, causing zero engine compression. So, I realigned the crankshaft pulley notch to 3pm, and retightened everything. Tried to start it up, and the battery died. This all being at 8:50pm, right as it's about to get dark outside. I ran down to Advance Auto Parts and got a set of jumper cables, and came back. I got everything hooked up, it sounded as if comprfession was there, butg I did not have my compression tool there to check. I took the sparkplugs out and they were covered in gas, leading me to believe I flooded the enigne.
I didn't have any extra plugs with me, so I had to order some. Hopefully with some new plugs and a compression test will be able to tell me if I have everything installed correctly. Lesson learned, be prepared for anything.
Being that I did this swap in the street in front of my parents house, I jacked up the right side of the cam and took the wheel off to see where the crank pulley was at. After looking at Patreezy's DIY about the timing belt install, the notch for the pulley should face 9AM for the crank pulley to be at top dead center. So, After realigning both the camshaft gear and the crankshaft gear again. I tried to start the car again, and nothing, same situation, sounded like the engine had zero compression.
After talking to Dave about this extensivley, he suggested that I may have the crank 180 degrees out, causing zero engine compression. So, I realigned the crankshaft pulley notch to 3pm, and retightened everything. Tried to start it up, and the battery died. This all being at 8:50pm, right as it's about to get dark outside. I ran down to Advance Auto Parts and got a set of jumper cables, and came back. I got everything hooked up, it sounded as if comprfession was there, butg I did not have my compression tool there to check. I took the sparkplugs out and they were covered in gas, leading me to believe I flooded the enigne.
I didn't have any extra plugs with me, so I had to order some. Hopefully with some new plugs and a compression test will be able to tell me if I have everything installed correctly. Lesson learned, be prepared for anything.
06-02-2007, 08:47 AM
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Ouch man, sorry to hear that. Does this mean the 1.8cam install wont work with aftermarket cams? Hopefully you get all running and working well, Im sure it will fing02.gif
06-02-2007, 10:01 AM
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Holy shyt!!
This is the same exact problem I ran into when I installed my SR cams! I have the same exact cams as you, shark racing dual 268's, they are 9.2mm of lift (.380") in case you are wondering, I measured them with a set of calipers.
I can't friggin remember what I did to fix the no compression thing. Oh, wait, I beleive it is because you didn't bleed the lifters did you? The fill up with additional oil or something when you pull the cams and install the new ones. You had to used the cams caps to pull them all the way down and compress the lifters didn't you. After a little while they got compressed and the compression was there. But think about it, if the hydraulic lifters fill up with additional oil, thus increasing the lift of the cams ALL the time, when the lobe on the cam to open the valve passes, the valve will still be open due to the increase in oil quantity.
Once again ensure you have the cams in time with the crank by putting something down into cyl. 1 and spin over the engine with no plugs in it (by hand, lol-you can use the 17mm nut on the cam gear). Wait until the object, (I used welding filler rod, but anything that will fit down the spark plug hole that is dull and will not break off will suffice) reaches it's highest point, and try to get to the middle of that point you know?
Then look through the hole in the cam gear, it should be aligned with the little red dash on the #1 cam cap for the exhaust cam.
Eventually I got the compression back, I believe the lifters bled back down on their own. (I tried bench bleeding them by pulling them out and putting them in a vice with a spacer on the part of the lifter that touched the top of the valve, and a cloth on the surface that contacts the cam, but I couldn't compress the little bastards!!) If you try, it will be difficult (you will need a 5+" vice, and you just compress it, then release the pressure, then compress it again, etc. etc. Do that about 10 times to each lifter, or until little or no oil comes out of the little hole in the oil pressure feed ring that goes around the lifter).
Anyway, once you have compression back, it will be difficult to get running, and it will run like hell at first due to the very drastic change of the overlap and lift between the 268's and the 232 intake and 242 exhaust, lol.
After I did my worked cylinder head WITH the cams, it took hours to get the car to learn the new ignition/fuel curve, no more ecu resets here, lol.
Once it starts to run right, the idle is SICK!! And the power increase is better than the Airram! It is sereously awesome. If you want a smooth idle, grab an intake cam sprocket and advance it 10 degrees, with the exhaust cam gear advanced like 2 degrees. Remember, you have to have both the intake cam sprocket and exhaust cam gear loose at the same time to adjust cam timing independently for in. ex.
That is how I got my idle smooth and the misfire cel to go away when I had the stock head, but with my p&p head with oversized valves, I cannot get the idle smooth, so it is lumpy and sounds sick as hell, but I have a cel for misfires on every cylinder due to the fluctuation of the crank and cam signals due to the lup, lup, lup of the idle.
Did you end up moving your crank 180 degrees in relation to the cams? I remember a lot of fuel coming out the exhaust when it finally started (big black mark on the drywall in the garage behind my car, lol. If you crank too much with no go, 1+minutes (only crank 30 seconds at a time, letting the starter cool down 2 minutes between tries, or you will burn up the starter!!) remove the plugs, and crank the engine with the coil packs disconnected from the ecu, this should help to spray the fuel out the spark plug holes. Also, feather the gas pedal between WOT and slight throttle to get the engine some additional air to fire the excessive fuel off.
Hope that info helps you out, good luck and enjoy!! smile.gif
This is the same exact problem I ran into when I installed my SR cams! I have the same exact cams as you, shark racing dual 268's, they are 9.2mm of lift (.380") in case you are wondering, I measured them with a set of calipers.
I can't friggin remember what I did to fix the no compression thing. Oh, wait, I beleive it is because you didn't bleed the lifters did you? The fill up with additional oil or something when you pull the cams and install the new ones. You had to used the cams caps to pull them all the way down and compress the lifters didn't you. After a little while they got compressed and the compression was there. But think about it, if the hydraulic lifters fill up with additional oil, thus increasing the lift of the cams ALL the time, when the lobe on the cam to open the valve passes, the valve will still be open due to the increase in oil quantity.
Once again ensure you have the cams in time with the crank by putting something down into cyl. 1 and spin over the engine with no plugs in it (by hand, lol-you can use the 17mm nut on the cam gear). Wait until the object, (I used welding filler rod, but anything that will fit down the spark plug hole that is dull and will not break off will suffice) reaches it's highest point, and try to get to the middle of that point you know?
Then look through the hole in the cam gear, it should be aligned with the little red dash on the #1 cam cap for the exhaust cam.
Eventually I got the compression back, I believe the lifters bled back down on their own. (I tried bench bleeding them by pulling them out and putting them in a vice with a spacer on the part of the lifter that touched the top of the valve, and a cloth on the surface that contacts the cam, but I couldn't compress the little bastards!!) If you try, it will be difficult (you will need a 5+" vice, and you just compress it, then release the pressure, then compress it again, etc. etc. Do that about 10 times to each lifter, or until little or no oil comes out of the little hole in the oil pressure feed ring that goes around the lifter).
Anyway, once you have compression back, it will be difficult to get running, and it will run like hell at first due to the very drastic change of the overlap and lift between the 268's and the 232 intake and 242 exhaust, lol.
After I did my worked cylinder head WITH the cams, it took hours to get the car to learn the new ignition/fuel curve, no more ecu resets here, lol.
Once it starts to run right, the idle is SICK!! And the power increase is better than the Airram! It is sereously awesome. If you want a smooth idle, grab an intake cam sprocket and advance it 10 degrees, with the exhaust cam gear advanced like 2 degrees. Remember, you have to have both the intake cam sprocket and exhaust cam gear loose at the same time to adjust cam timing independently for in. ex.
That is how I got my idle smooth and the misfire cel to go away when I had the stock head, but with my p&p head with oversized valves, I cannot get the idle smooth, so it is lumpy and sounds sick as hell, but I have a cel for misfires on every cylinder due to the fluctuation of the crank and cam signals due to the lup, lup, lup of the idle.
Did you end up moving your crank 180 degrees in relation to the cams? I remember a lot of fuel coming out the exhaust when it finally started (big black mark on the drywall in the garage behind my car, lol. If you crank too much with no go, 1+minutes (only crank 30 seconds at a time, letting the starter cool down 2 minutes between tries, or you will burn up the starter!!) remove the plugs, and crank the engine with the coil packs disconnected from the ecu, this should help to spray the fuel out the spark plug holes. Also, feather the gas pedal between WOT and slight throttle to get the engine some additional air to fire the excessive fuel off.
Hope that info helps you out, good luck and enjoy!! smile.gif
06-02-2007, 10:20 AM
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I screwed around with it a bit more today. I did do a 180 degree flip on the crank pulley and attempted to start it again, but nothing. I put the old cams back in and tried to start the engine, but it's doing the same thing. I had to come home to get ready to go to a wedding, so, hopefully the lifters will need to drain and the car will start. I'm hoping I didn't bend a valve, but who know's. I'm going to go back tomorrow and just try to start it, and see what happens.
06-02-2007, 11:52 AM
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I think you need to reverse that flip man.
I am not sure if you bent a valve or not, but I have had my intake cam advanced up to 16 degrees with no problems.
A little tip is to turn over the engine with all of the plugs removed, if you hit a spot and you cant turn it over by hand with the exhaust cam gear bolt, then you know your hitting a valve, but in your case, if it is possible to bend a valve, you did.
I say you should remove the stockers, flip the crank back 180 degrees, and intstall the SR's. Wait a day, crank it every now and then to try to bleed down the lifters, and it should eventaully start up.
I am not sure if you bent a valve or not, but I have had my intake cam advanced up to 16 degrees with no problems.
A little tip is to turn over the engine with all of the plugs removed, if you hit a spot and you cant turn it over by hand with the exhaust cam gear bolt, then you know your hitting a valve, but in your case, if it is possible to bend a valve, you did.
I say you should remove the stockers, flip the crank back 180 degrees, and intstall the SR's. Wait a day, crank it every now and then to try to bleed down the lifters, and it should eventaully start up.
06-03-2007, 09:11 AM
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So, I went back over this morning after getting in at 4am from a wedding. Everything was actually aligned properly when I put the old camshaft's back in. Piston #1 (passenger side piston) has to be at top dead center, and was. I also forgot that the old BetaI engine's have hydrolic lifters, which means whenever you take a cmashaft out and oil gets into the lifters, they will need to bleed themselves out to be reset. I'm going to go back over tomorrow and see how everything it, hopefully she may just start right up. Thanks to TDonnell for his help too!
06-03-2007, 12:46 PM
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is it possible you reversed the cams? Like, you could be drawing air from the exhaust and shooting it back out the intake, then when the valves open for the intake it could drop fuel into the engine.
06-03-2007, 02:13 PM
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No, it's not possible. The intake cam does not have a threaded hole on the end to screw the timing gear bolt into.
06-03-2007, 05:28 PM
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Sure man, you're welcome!
If the car starts up tomorrow, you need to pull out the stockers and throw the SR cams in there!
It is totally worth it, just have patience when trying to start it back up. smile.gif
If the car starts up tomorrow, you need to pull out the stockers and throw the SR cams in there!
It is totally worth it, just have patience when trying to start it back up. smile.gif