New ECU under development... long
05-02-2002, 10:19 AM
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New ECU under development... long
Looks like there is another ECU option that looks very promising.
http://ackthud.com/shawnfogg/fuelupgrade.htm
Shawn is a friend of mine from the BMW world. (I also have a turbocharged Z3).
As he states, the Power Commander III is special in that it modifies the fuel injector signal outbound and not the MAF / TPS / MAP inbound. Also it has alot more points of input than the usual high / low settings offered in other products.
It will require some development but the guys at the shop are very very excited about this product. First of all we are the only distributor for Dynojet products to include the PC III in Korea. The unit is relatively inexpensive. It has alot of technical advantages. Bolt on turbo systems are taking off in Korea and we make the exhaust manifold and are the sole distributor for Garrett turbos. This will fit in nicely with a set up. We will get a PC III shipped in and try to get it set up with the Hyundai Betas.
Some of you may have noticed that Shawn used it with TPS but the PC III can be used with MAP or MAF signals as the input. Also the PC IIIr can control ignition timing. This maybe exactly what the doctor order in terms of a piggyback ECU for bolt on applications.... broad fuel and timing control, relatively inexpensive, output modifications only, should be OBD II compliant, laptop modified, and should be a complete bolt on with the harness into the stock ECU.
Unfortunately for you guys with the MAF Betas, you may have to wait. We will be working on the MAP Betas first, then MAP Alphas.
I will let you guys know as it develops,
Cheuk
http://ackthud.com/shawnfogg/fuelupgrade.htm
Shawn is a friend of mine from the BMW world. (I also have a turbocharged Z3).
As he states, the Power Commander III is special in that it modifies the fuel injector signal outbound and not the MAF / TPS / MAP inbound. Also it has alot more points of input than the usual high / low settings offered in other products.
It will require some development but the guys at the shop are very very excited about this product. First of all we are the only distributor for Dynojet products to include the PC III in Korea. The unit is relatively inexpensive. It has alot of technical advantages. Bolt on turbo systems are taking off in Korea and we make the exhaust manifold and are the sole distributor for Garrett turbos. This will fit in nicely with a set up. We will get a PC III shipped in and try to get it set up with the Hyundai Betas.
Some of you may have noticed that Shawn used it with TPS but the PC III can be used with MAP or MAF signals as the input. Also the PC IIIr can control ignition timing. This maybe exactly what the doctor order in terms of a piggyback ECU for bolt on applications.... broad fuel and timing control, relatively inexpensive, output modifications only, should be OBD II compliant, laptop modified, and should be a complete bolt on with the harness into the stock ECU.
Unfortunately for you guys with the MAF Betas, you may have to wait. We will be working on the MAP Betas first, then MAP Alphas.
I will let you guys know as it develops,
Cheuk
05-02-2002, 10:35 AM
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Cheuk
Will there be plans for N/A engines as well, or mostly F/I?
If plans go in for N/A will we see any ECU upgrades for the Delta V6 since we are limited to mostly doing N/A upgrades?
If you look at how popular 'chipping' your VW, Audi, BMW people are seeing around 7-12 hp gains. It would be nice to pay as you said an inexpensive upgrade. Especially looking at the number of V6's out here in North America, people knowing now that F/I isn't an option, N/A will be. So when you put everything together, i/h/e/throttle body/intake manifold should put you over 200 whp. Then chip it and your past that. Probally looking at 260hp.
Will there be plans for N/A engines as well, or mostly F/I?
If plans go in for N/A will we see any ECU upgrades for the Delta V6 since we are limited to mostly doing N/A upgrades?
If you look at how popular 'chipping' your VW, Audi, BMW people are seeing around 7-12 hp gains. It would be nice to pay as you said an inexpensive upgrade. Especially looking at the number of V6's out here in North America, people knowing now that F/I isn't an option, N/A will be. So when you put everything together, i/h/e/throttle body/intake manifold should put you over 200 whp. Then chip it and your past that. Probally looking at 260hp.
05-02-2002, 11:50 AM
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The Power Commanders are geared for 4 cyl because it was developed for motorcycles. But NA setups should be easy enough using TPS vs fuel injector duty cycle. It maybe a little hairly for multi throttle setups because they are really sensative to minute changes in TPS position and the PC III may not have enough points at higher TPS positions.
I don't expect anything for the V6's but after the work on the Hyundais, I maybe using this system for my BMW I6 engine... that is PC III x 2 running in a 3 cyl mode.
I don't expect anything for the V6's but after the work on the Hyundais, I maybe using this system for my BMW I6 engine... that is PC III x 2 running in a 3 cyl mode.
05-02-2002, 06:25 PM
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Vehicle: 2008 Toyota Prius 2006 Suzuki SV650S
I have experience with the devices on motorcycles.
The Power Commanders have a great reputation(when setup properly) in the Motorcycle world, but of course, they only work on fuel injected MC's and most are still using carbs. The more advanced units also adjust timing (for models with ECU controled ignition).
Good luck Cheuk!
For those of you who want to read more on the PC lineup.
Now if we could only get Dynojet(powercommander) to make car specific applications, that would ROCK! (the units come with motorcycle specific maps in addition to being customized for the sensors/injectors on each motorcycle).
The Power Commanders have a great reputation(when setup properly) in the Motorcycle world, but of course, they only work on fuel injected MC's and most are still using carbs. The more advanced units also adjust timing (for models with ECU controled ignition).
Good luck Cheuk!
For those of you who want to read more on the PC lineup.
Now if we could only get Dynojet(powercommander) to make car specific applications, that would ROCK! (the units come with motorcycle specific maps in addition to being customized for the sensors/injectors on each motorcycle).
05-03-2002, 07:12 PM
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Using this product straight on a BETA engine would more than likely work - if the PC3 can adjust fueling and ignition based on TPS and MAP (manifold pressure) then it would work 100% for a normally aspirated BETA engine. BUT have alot of limitations and hicups... - where the problems come into play are here:-
With a turbocharged engine - the MAP sensor used on the PC3 will need to be higher (2.5bar instead of a normally aspirated 1.15bar version) and there are no bikes that are fuel injected and turbocharged from the factory on the market at all - so all your turbo junkies, forget the PC3 for now.
The other area or concern is what limitations does the unit have in terms of injector open time, current output (can it open our injectors and hold them open without melting down the unit) and also how many output drivers does it have?
If th PC3 does not have a built in coil amp circuit you will need to wire one up, this might not work 100% with the module you choose to install and you could probably pickup a few glitches there...
OK - al the above issues are if you want to run the PC3 AS IS on a BETA engine (Normally Aspirated) If there was some development done, I reckon the unit has alot of potential! - just my comments.
With a turbocharged engine - the MAP sensor used on the PC3 will need to be higher (2.5bar instead of a normally aspirated 1.15bar version) and there are no bikes that are fuel injected and turbocharged from the factory on the market at all - so all your turbo junkies, forget the PC3 for now.
The other area or concern is what limitations does the unit have in terms of injector open time, current output (can it open our injectors and hold them open without melting down the unit) and also how many output drivers does it have?
If th PC3 does not have a built in coil amp circuit you will need to wire one up, this might not work 100% with the module you choose to install and you could probably pickup a few glitches there...
OK - al the above issues are if you want to run the PC3 AS IS on a BETA engine (Normally Aspirated) If there was some development done, I reckon the unit has alot of potential! - just my comments.
05-05-2002, 02:13 AM
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The PC III has four injector drivers. It can use TPS, MAP or MAF. It will drive high ohm injectors upto stock injector limits. Going with a 2.5 bar MAP sensor along with injectors 2x stock size should give a rough equvialent. The PC III can directly change injector pulse +/- 100% this should be able to make the adjustments. Remember that the ECU only sees 0-5v as the range for the MAP sensor whether it is 0-1.15 bar or 0-2.5 bar... it just sees voltage.
The concerns are... does the MAP vs Fuel have enough points for fine control... can it control the ignition? Even if it can't control the ignition, it still maybe good enough for bolt on turbo application. I believe that the timing is controlled by intercepting the input signal to the ECU and modifying it... not at the output... so an ignition booster should not be necessary. Still waiting on the wiring diagram to confirm.
The big advantages I see is that it has many more points than any other piggyback ECU, It should be a very simple bolt on, no "tricking" the ECU.. resulting in unwanted advanced timing, should be OBD II compliant with no serious changes in long term fuel trim.
I am still waiting on a wiring diagram and a PC IIIr. Should have some work done by next week.
The concerns are... does the MAP vs Fuel have enough points for fine control... can it control the ignition? Even if it can't control the ignition, it still maybe good enough for bolt on turbo application. I believe that the timing is controlled by intercepting the input signal to the ECU and modifying it... not at the output... so an ignition booster should not be necessary. Still waiting on the wiring diagram to confirm.
The big advantages I see is that it has many more points than any other piggyback ECU, It should be a very simple bolt on, no "tricking" the ECU.. resulting in unwanted advanced timing, should be OBD II compliant with no serious changes in long term fuel trim.
I am still waiting on a wiring diagram and a PC IIIr. Should have some work done by next week.
05-06-2002, 06:11 AM
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Cheuk,
Sounds all good, but I have one or two more questions for you, perhaps you have the answers.
1) Will this be able to be run and tuned WITHOUT a DynoJet Dynamometer? We do not use these expensive dyno's in our country (Pitty!)
2) COST COST COST??? - I can get an equivalent piggy back system with the same features locally available at around $120.00 or so as my dealer price, also able to intercept the input ignition signal, has a built in MAP sensor (MPX4250 - 2.5bar, or MPX4300 - 3.0bar) comes with serial cable, software and loom - we run these on many engines mainly with one extra injector for fueling at high boost settings and slight ignition retards.
Let me know the costs if you have them.
Sounds all good, but I have one or two more questions for you, perhaps you have the answers.
1) Will this be able to be run and tuned WITHOUT a DynoJet Dynamometer? We do not use these expensive dyno's in our country (Pitty!)
2) COST COST COST??? - I can get an equivalent piggy back system with the same features locally available at around $120.00 or so as my dealer price, also able to intercept the input ignition signal, has a built in MAP sensor (MPX4250 - 2.5bar, or MPX4300 - 3.0bar) comes with serial cable, software and loom - we run these on many engines mainly with one extra injector for fueling at high boost settings and slight ignition retards.
Let me know the costs if you have them.
05-06-2002, 10:14 AM
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We will probably do most of the tuning with a wide band O2 sensor and an open stretch of highway. Then some ignition work and final touches on the dyno. Should be able to be 95% on with a base map and wide band O2 sensor runs.
Does the $120 device change the output signal of the injectors? That is the strong point of the PC III, I don't know of a single other piggyback that alters injector pulse this way. It's hard to say how much it will cost. We still don't have a figure on how much Dynojet will sell us the units in bulk. My guess is that we will sell it for about the same price as the S AFC. Is the unit you are talking about the Unichip?
Does the $120 device change the output signal of the injectors? That is the strong point of the PC III, I don't know of a single other piggyback that alters injector pulse this way. It's hard to say how much it will cost. We still don't have a figure on how much Dynojet will sell us the units in bulk. My guess is that we will sell it for about the same price as the S AFC. Is the unit you are talking about the Unichip?
05-07-2002, 04:02 AM
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Cheuk,
The product is definitely NOT the Unichip!
It is called the Turbo Fueller - is can be found here:- www.perfectpower.com The pricing you see on the page is nowhere near our dealer price or retail price.
Yes this can either control extra injectors independantly or change the output of the existing injector pulse using the signal from the negative of the coil or RPM pickup point.
The product is definitely NOT the Unichip!
It is called the Turbo Fueller - is can be found here:- www.perfectpower.com The pricing you see on the page is nowhere near our dealer price or retail price.
Yes this can either control extra injectors independantly or change the output of the existing injector pulse using the signal from the negative of the coil or RPM pickup point.