Gear oil info, GL4 and Gl5 and MT-1
12-22-2004, 04:20 PM
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Re: JET-HOT Coating Discount!
According to raceshopper.com and nasioc.com:
Red Line MTL is classified as a 70W80 gear lubricant satisfying the API Service requirements of GL-3 and GL-4. MTL also satisfies motor oil viscosities SAE 5W/10W/30, and the viscosity requirements for ATFs. MT-90 is a 75W90 GL-4 and also satisfies motor oil viscosities SAE 10W/15W/40. The additive chemistry used is non-corrosive, so even though they will provide GL-4 performance, they will not corrode synchros or bushings. Because of its low corrosivity, Red Line MTL and MT-90 could also be used in transmissions requiring GL-1 or GL-3 lubricants. Seal compatibility is designed to be similar to petroleum-based lubricants.
What is GL and MT-1 rating?
The gear oil's GL rating as set forth by API measures how well it will perform under extreme pressure. Gear oil is manufactured with anti-wear additives to stop metal surfaces from welding together. The GL rating ranges from 1 to 6. Gear oils rated 1 to 4 are considered anti-wear products, whereas GL 5 and 6 products are for use under extreme pressure.
GL-4
Denotes lubricants intended for axles with spiral bevel gears operating under moderate to severe conditions of speed and load or axles with hypoid gears operating under moderate speeds and loads. These oils may be used in selected manual transmissions and transaxle applications where API MT-1 lubricants are unsuitable.
GL-5
Denotes lubricants intended for gears, particularly hypoid gears, in axles operating under various combinations of high-speed shock loads and low-speed, high-torque conditions. Lubricants qualified under MIL-L-2105D satisfy the requirements of the API GL-5 specification, although the API designation does not require military approval.
MT-1
Denotes lubricants intended for nonsynchronized manual transmissions used in buses and heavy-duty trucks. Lubricants meeting the requirements of API MT-1 provide protection against the combination of thermal degradation, component wear and oil seal deterioration. API MT-1 does not address the performance requirements of synchronized transmissions and transaxles in passenger car and heavy-duty applications.
GL-5 has the following oil performance tests with stringent requirements:
ASTM L-33:
Gear test using differential assembly measuring the resistance to corrosion in the presence of moisture.
ASTM D-6121:
Gear test using complete axle assembly measuring the resistance to gear distress under low-speed, high-torque conditions.
ASTM L-42:
Gear test using complete axle assembly measuring the resistance to gear distress (scoring) under high-speed, shock-load conditions.
ASTM L-60:
Bench test using spur gears measuring oxidation stability.
ASTM D-892:
Bench test measuring foaming tendencies.
I also found this information from Red Line:
Most manufacturers of manual transmissions and transaxles recommend an 80W or 90W GL-4 lubricant. GL-5 gears oils which are required in hypoid differentials are not used in most synchromesh transmissions because the chemicals used to provide the extreme pressure protection can be corrosive to synchronizers, which are commonly made of brass or bronze. Typically, the use of a GL-5 lubricant in a synchromesh transmission will shorten the synchronizer life by one half. The extreme pressure requirements of spur gears and helical gears found in transmissions are not nearly as great as found in rear-wheel drive differentials. A GL-4 lubricant provides adequate protection for most manual transmissions, unless a unique design consideration requires the extra protection of a GL-5.
What is API?
API is American Petroleum Institue. They set forth what they call service ratings (GL, MT, etc...) described above.
What are 02+ wrx synchros made of?
Bronze according to various threads on nasioc. No cold hard evidence yet but most say they are bronze.
What is SAE rating? (ie 10w30, 75w90, etc...)
I would say the good majority of people know what this means but in case you do not, go *here*.
So which gear oil should I use?
I know you were probably hoping for the tell all answer from all of this but my hope is that this is educational enough for you to make an educated decision based on the information provided. If it means anything, I am probably going to go with Red Line 75W90NS unless I find something that looks like a better compromise (gears/synchros) with GL-5 rating.
I hope this helps everyone out at least some.
*DOUBLE POST EDITED BY REDZ*
Lets get a list of GL4 lubricants.
Redline MT90 75w90
Redline MTL 75w80
royal purple
Motylgear 75W90: Technosynthese
GM syncromesh
that all I know off the top of my head.
Redline was okay, not the best, MT90 anyway.
motul, I think will be my next try, since it is reccommended for notchy transmissions. it also meets MIL-L-2105D (MIL = Military )
Red Line MTL is classified as a 70W80 gear lubricant satisfying the API Service requirements of GL-3 and GL-4. MTL also satisfies motor oil viscosities SAE 5W/10W/30, and the viscosity requirements for ATFs. MT-90 is a 75W90 GL-4 and also satisfies motor oil viscosities SAE 10W/15W/40. The additive chemistry used is non-corrosive, so even though they will provide GL-4 performance, they will not corrode synchros or bushings. Because of its low corrosivity, Red Line MTL and MT-90 could also be used in transmissions requiring GL-1 or GL-3 lubricants. Seal compatibility is designed to be similar to petroleum-based lubricants.
What is GL and MT-1 rating?
The gear oil's GL rating as set forth by API measures how well it will perform under extreme pressure. Gear oil is manufactured with anti-wear additives to stop metal surfaces from welding together. The GL rating ranges from 1 to 6. Gear oils rated 1 to 4 are considered anti-wear products, whereas GL 5 and 6 products are for use under extreme pressure.
GL-4
Denotes lubricants intended for axles with spiral bevel gears operating under moderate to severe conditions of speed and load or axles with hypoid gears operating under moderate speeds and loads. These oils may be used in selected manual transmissions and transaxle applications where API MT-1 lubricants are unsuitable.
GL-5
Denotes lubricants intended for gears, particularly hypoid gears, in axles operating under various combinations of high-speed shock loads and low-speed, high-torque conditions. Lubricants qualified under MIL-L-2105D satisfy the requirements of the API GL-5 specification, although the API designation does not require military approval.
MT-1
Denotes lubricants intended for nonsynchronized manual transmissions used in buses and heavy-duty trucks. Lubricants meeting the requirements of API MT-1 provide protection against the combination of thermal degradation, component wear and oil seal deterioration. API MT-1 does not address the performance requirements of synchronized transmissions and transaxles in passenger car and heavy-duty applications.
GL-5 has the following oil performance tests with stringent requirements:
ASTM L-33:
Gear test using differential assembly measuring the resistance to corrosion in the presence of moisture.
ASTM D-6121:
Gear test using complete axle assembly measuring the resistance to gear distress under low-speed, high-torque conditions.
ASTM L-42:
Gear test using complete axle assembly measuring the resistance to gear distress (scoring) under high-speed, shock-load conditions.
ASTM L-60:
Bench test using spur gears measuring oxidation stability.
ASTM D-892:
Bench test measuring foaming tendencies.
I also found this information from Red Line:
Most manufacturers of manual transmissions and transaxles recommend an 80W or 90W GL-4 lubricant. GL-5 gears oils which are required in hypoid differentials are not used in most synchromesh transmissions because the chemicals used to provide the extreme pressure protection can be corrosive to synchronizers, which are commonly made of brass or bronze. Typically, the use of a GL-5 lubricant in a synchromesh transmission will shorten the synchronizer life by one half. The extreme pressure requirements of spur gears and helical gears found in transmissions are not nearly as great as found in rear-wheel drive differentials. A GL-4 lubricant provides adequate protection for most manual transmissions, unless a unique design consideration requires the extra protection of a GL-5.
What is API?
API is American Petroleum Institue. They set forth what they call service ratings (GL, MT, etc...) described above.
What are 02+ wrx synchros made of?
Bronze according to various threads on nasioc. No cold hard evidence yet but most say they are bronze.
What is SAE rating? (ie 10w30, 75w90, etc...)
I would say the good majority of people know what this means but in case you do not, go *here*.
So which gear oil should I use?
I know you were probably hoping for the tell all answer from all of this but my hope is that this is educational enough for you to make an educated decision based on the information provided. If it means anything, I am probably going to go with Red Line 75W90NS unless I find something that looks like a better compromise (gears/synchros) with GL-5 rating.
I hope this helps everyone out at least some.
*DOUBLE POST EDITED BY REDZ*
Lets get a list of GL4 lubricants.
Redline MT90 75w90
Redline MTL 75w80
royal purple
Motylgear 75W90: Technosynthese
GM syncromesh
that all I know off the top of my head.
Redline was okay, not the best, MT90 anyway.
motul, I think will be my next try, since it is reccommended for notchy transmissions. it also meets MIL-L-2105D (MIL = Military )
12-22-2004, 04:27 PM
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Re: Free & easy weight saving mod
Shadohh...
Come on mang.
You know we are kinda strict here.
1. Don't double post. Noob. :roll: :arrow: :twisted:
2. You still need to change your location to a REAL PLACE. Weather it is a state or city.
Come on mang.
You know we are kinda strict here.
1. Don't double post. Noob. :roll: :arrow: :twisted:
2. You still need to change your location to a REAL PLACE. Weather it is a state or city.
12-22-2004, 04:43 PM
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Re: Power locks
no double posting rule is gay.
Its was put into two seperate post because it is to split up to different important information.
now we are gaying up the post, with your post, and tib post and now mine.
good job smile.gif
damnit I changed my info last time you yelled.
* I see, I changed it in the wrong place, oops.
What spurred me on?
Because this is a forum, and how can fellow hyundai enthusiast make a proper decision without knowing all about it.
I am gonna start commenting on every topic to get my count high, cause I cant double post ::rolls eyes::
Its was put into two seperate post because it is to split up to different important information.
now we are gaying up the post, with your post, and tib post and now mine.
good job smile.gif
damnit I changed my info last time you yelled.
* I see, I changed it in the wrong place, oops.
What spurred me on?
Because this is a forum, and how can fellow hyundai enthusiast make a proper decision without knowing all about it.
I am gonna start commenting on every topic to get my count high, cause I cant double post ::rolls eyes::
12-22-2004, 05:40 PM
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Re: JET-HOT Coating Discount!
If you want to seperate the info leave some spaces.
Or change the color.
LOL
Double posting is gay.
Blame Random for my double posting fetish.
Or change the color.
LOL
Double posting is gay.
Blame Random for my double posting fetish.
12-22-2004, 06:53 PM
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Re: Check out them apples..
^^^ That is what I'm using in my tranny. Well that and a full bottle of Lucas Stabilizer. Not sure how easy that information is to find but something like this on the different stabilizers would be a nice addition as well.
12-23-2004, 09:53 AM
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Re: DIY - The "big 3" wire upgrade
QUOTE (UltraTibby)
^^^ That is what I'm using in my tranny. Well that and a full bottle of Lucas Stabilizer. Not sure how easy that information is to find but something like this on the different stabilizers would be a nice addition as well.
I use to run redline and lucas. And it worked well but.....
Actually the Lucas stuff is crap and you have ruined your Redline mt90.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm
Lucas Oil stabilizer causes severe air ration (foaming) of the fluid.
Air bubbles in your lubricant means it is not lubricanting as well.
12-23-2004, 10:21 AM
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Re: adjustable cam sprockets
That would be true except that I have ran my car with and without the stabilizer and shifting is much smoother at high RPMs with the stabilizer. So I dont think that guy really knows what he is talking about. Also that testing is done with engine oil not with gear oil (unless I missed something). Big difference between regular and gear oil.
12-23-2004, 06:17 PM
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Re: The Person Above You
QUOTE (UltraTibby)
That would be true except that I have ran my car with and without the stabilizer and shifting is much smoother at high RPMs with the stabilizer. So I dont think that guy really knows what he is talking about. Also that testing is done with engine oil not with gear oil (unless I missed something). Big difference between regular and gear oil.
While I do agree it made shifting tons beter. I dont believe in Lucas oil Stabilizer and I think you are taking a chance running it.
If you want a better shift you should mix Redline Mt90 + Redline MTL.
Lucas Just seems BAD all together.
.Like I said I ran mt90 and lucas and liked it. But I dont wanna bad tranny either.
But to each his own, just know YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.