Coupla Q's
02-10-2003, 06:59 PM
#1
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Vehicle: 1999 Elantra
Coupla Q's
Hey guys, just recieved an email from a local guy who can do some engine work in my car. The email is as follows...
QUOTE
...And so, my car crashed into the rear of the van and got smashed. So now, Im
selling you my full-race ported and polished, shaved cylinder head with
lightened flywheel. It's swap plus add 15,000 pesos with the lightened flywheel
and swap plus 12,000 without the lightened flywheel. This cylinder head is
identical to the ones in the 1600, 1800 and 2000cc engines.
The quote of my shop for increasing displacement from 2000cc to 2200cc for high
compression applications is 27,000 pesos($490), labor, parts included. (additional 30
to 50 hp)
The quote of my shop for increasing displacement from 2000cc to 2200cc for turbo
applications is 35,000 ($640). This is due to the needed conversion of your Hyundai
connecting rod to a Honda B16 connecting rod for rigidity and lower compression
ratio. (additional 20 to 30 hp)
Adjustable Cam gears (moves 20 to 30 hp around the power curve, depending on
where you'd want the power): 4,000 pesos (BULL****)
Throttle body modification (plus 5 to 10 hp): 5,000 pesos($90-$95) (in any size you'd
want).
Turbo kit (additional 75 to 150hp depending on you, guaranteed): 50,000 pesos (roughly $900)
Big and cut valves (eliminates the primary weak point of the engine) 15,000 ($270)
pesos. (additional 20 hp)
Please decide asap my friend. Don't worry, all the work that will be done to
your car will guarateed. If it doesn't live up to what we say, then you can have
your money back. Anyhow, I'll be waiting and expecting your speedy reply. Good
luck and thanks.
My questions are: You think the quote for the turbo setup is cheap? B16 con rods in 2.0 Beta? Is that viable? Big and cut valves? Weak spot on engine? Is the cylinder head really the same for all 3 engines?
selling you my full-race ported and polished, shaved cylinder head with
lightened flywheel. It's swap plus add 15,000 pesos with the lightened flywheel
and swap plus 12,000 without the lightened flywheel. This cylinder head is
identical to the ones in the 1600, 1800 and 2000cc engines.
The quote of my shop for increasing displacement from 2000cc to 2200cc for high
compression applications is 27,000 pesos($490), labor, parts included. (additional 30
to 50 hp)
The quote of my shop for increasing displacement from 2000cc to 2200cc for turbo
applications is 35,000 ($640). This is due to the needed conversion of your Hyundai
connecting rod to a Honda B16 connecting rod for rigidity and lower compression
ratio. (additional 20 to 30 hp)
Adjustable Cam gears (moves 20 to 30 hp around the power curve, depending on
where you'd want the power): 4,000 pesos (BULL****)
Throttle body modification (plus 5 to 10 hp): 5,000 pesos($90-$95) (in any size you'd
want).
Turbo kit (additional 75 to 150hp depending on you, guaranteed): 50,000 pesos (roughly $900)
Big and cut valves (eliminates the primary weak point of the engine) 15,000 ($270)
pesos. (additional 20 hp)
Please decide asap my friend. Don't worry, all the work that will be done to
your car will guarateed. If it doesn't live up to what we say, then you can have
your money back. Anyhow, I'll be waiting and expecting your speedy reply. Good
luck and thanks.
02-10-2003, 09:44 PM
#2
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Vehicle: 2010 Honda VFR1200
anything is posible just depends on how much you want to spend... we can put chevy rods on a pontiac crank journal... so you never know.. they do that cus its cheaper to turn your crank down then you have all the chevy rod options... so i would guess that you may be able to do the same with our beta engines. and as far as the cylinder head i belive it is i know the 1.8 and 2.0 are it would make sense to have the one 1.6 the same cus it reduces costs.... automobile companys are in business to make money as far as week spot don't know haven't gotten in to the test engine i have... have to finish one project before you start another. Big valves you mean cut and grind? or install hardend seats? you need to find out what the heck there talking about. there are many different grinds you can run a 55 degree cut if you want a full race motor.. a good standard out there says its 45 intake and 45 exhaust but another thing that alot of good cylinder head shops do to ensure a very good seat and a longer life is they cut the valve at a 44 and the seat at a 45. and unsure haven't done all the research on this but if the valve lenghts on the honda and the stem diam. the same then you may be able to buy honda after market valves as a cheap alternative to a custom valve made for our hyundai's so do your homework ask for everthing in writing.. that way you bring all the info to the table.
the way it sounds to me is he wants to make your motor a honda/hyundai cross nothing wrong with that parts are cheaper for hondas and im sure more avalible... my guess is he would also use a honda piston if he is going with honda rods but do you want to cross the line with the parts then its not really a hyundia now you got a parts car... and if you ever go to work on it later.. and that guy isn't around and im guessing your not going to have an easy time finding someone that will want to do the work on it. there i put my .02 cents in the piggy bank for today
[ February 11, 2003, 05:19 AM: Message edited by: ignoreance ]
the way it sounds to me is he wants to make your motor a honda/hyundai cross nothing wrong with that parts are cheaper for hondas and im sure more avalible... my guess is he would also use a honda piston if he is going with honda rods but do you want to cross the line with the parts then its not really a hyundia now you got a parts car... and if you ever go to work on it later.. and that guy isn't around and im guessing your not going to have an easy time finding someone that will want to do the work on it. there i put my .02 cents in the piggy bank for today
[ February 11, 2003, 05:19 AM: Message edited by: ignoreance ]
02-27-2003, 09:28 PM
#6
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Vehicle: 1999 Elantra
The guy replied.
QUOTE
My engine is not the
original 2.0 beta that's why it's better. My engine is the original 1.6 liter
beta engine, converted to 1.8 and can still be converted to 2.0 for either low
or high compression applications. Why better? It's because the original 2.0 beta
has an 82x92.5 bore and stroke while the conversion that we do to the 1.6 is to
increase it to 81x85 to be roughly 1800cc using ultra high or ultra low
compression pistons, and can be converted to 86x85 to be roughly 2000cc. This is
better because in drag racing, you do not need too much torque which is
represented by the 92.5mm stroke because it has its consequences of being slow
revving and is the cause of having minimal power increases come 3/4 distance of
the quarter mile whereas the fast revving engines, such as the B16A, eat
opponents alive come 3rd gear because of this. An 85 stroke is perfect for the
lantra and I can assure my 1800cc block can beat a stock B16A engine, what more
for the 2000cc? As for your turbo setup, the 2.0 beta engine is good but
honestly, its hard to find. Also, one of the beta engine's weakness is having
weak connecting rods. This means that boosting above 8psi of pressure would be
risking your connecting rods to be bent or broken. An alternative engine from
Mitsubishi can be used for the elantra. Actually there are 2. First is the
Evolution IV, V, VI series engines which mind you, is priced like gold. And,
there is also the Galant 2.0 4 cylinder 4G63 engine which although is
single-cam, can be tuned to high horsepower turbo applications. With regards to
the timing, as you know by know, the lantra engine can be fitted with just one
adjustable cam gear because there is only one cam gear handling the 2 cams. It
is still needed because the increments of adjusting advance/retard timing are
too big if you just try to do it by adjusting the timing belts' position. This
then results to improper timing which causes the drastic movement of power from
one rpm range to another which with a rpm limit of 6700, we don't need. As for
the intake/exhaust cams, their positions are not interchangeable which means you
have to adjust them both (a function of the cam gear) when adjusting so as to
prevent misfires, engine not starting etc. The big and cut valves I was
referring to means that "big" (from valve diameter of the size of a 1 peso coin
to a five peso coin) and "cut" which means the valves are cut and shaved to be
"thin" to maximize airflow and minimize air drag. The gains of these are very
big. Try to imagine blowing through a hole the size of 1 peso and blowing
through a hole the size of 5 pesos. big difference right? Multiply that
difference by 16 valves. Very big difference now right? Then multiply that
difference to 6700 times are passes through that hole in a minute. Get the
picture? Of course, there is a proper equation in measuring the exact gains of
such an endeavor but the point is, it's a big difference.
What you guys think?
original 2.0 beta that's why it's better. My engine is the original 1.6 liter
beta engine, converted to 1.8 and can still be converted to 2.0 for either low
or high compression applications. Why better? It's because the original 2.0 beta
has an 82x92.5 bore and stroke while the conversion that we do to the 1.6 is to
increase it to 81x85 to be roughly 1800cc using ultra high or ultra low
compression pistons, and can be converted to 86x85 to be roughly 2000cc. This is
better because in drag racing, you do not need too much torque which is
represented by the 92.5mm stroke because it has its consequences of being slow
revving and is the cause of having minimal power increases come 3/4 distance of
the quarter mile whereas the fast revving engines, such as the B16A, eat
opponents alive come 3rd gear because of this. An 85 stroke is perfect for the
lantra and I can assure my 1800cc block can beat a stock B16A engine, what more
for the 2000cc? As for your turbo setup, the 2.0 beta engine is good but
honestly, its hard to find. Also, one of the beta engine's weakness is having
weak connecting rods. This means that boosting above 8psi of pressure would be
risking your connecting rods to be bent or broken. An alternative engine from
Mitsubishi can be used for the elantra. Actually there are 2. First is the
Evolution IV, V, VI series engines which mind you, is priced like gold. And,
there is also the Galant 2.0 4 cylinder 4G63 engine which although is
single-cam, can be tuned to high horsepower turbo applications. With regards to
the timing, as you know by know, the lantra engine can be fitted with just one
adjustable cam gear because there is only one cam gear handling the 2 cams. It
is still needed because the increments of adjusting advance/retard timing are
too big if you just try to do it by adjusting the timing belts' position. This
then results to improper timing which causes the drastic movement of power from
one rpm range to another which with a rpm limit of 6700, we don't need. As for
the intake/exhaust cams, their positions are not interchangeable which means you
have to adjust them both (a function of the cam gear) when adjusting so as to
prevent misfires, engine not starting etc. The big and cut valves I was
referring to means that "big" (from valve diameter of the size of a 1 peso coin
to a five peso coin) and "cut" which means the valves are cut and shaved to be
"thin" to maximize airflow and minimize air drag. The gains of these are very
big. Try to imagine blowing through a hole the size of 1 peso and blowing
through a hole the size of 5 pesos. big difference right? Multiply that
difference by 16 valves. Very big difference now right? Then multiply that
difference to 6700 times are passes through that hole in a minute. Get the
picture? Of course, there is a proper equation in measuring the exact gains of
such an endeavor but the point is, it's a big difference.
02-28-2003, 05:36 PM
#7
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More Info:
He called me and gave me a quote for a lightened flywheel, shaved heads, and rebored 1.6 Beta from 77.4 to 85 mm, giving me a square engine for better revs. He says that there is enough metal in the block for such a bore. The pistons would be from a NA 4G63. 'Round $850 inc. labor and parts.
He called me and gave me a quote for a lightened flywheel, shaved heads, and rebored 1.6 Beta from 77.4 to 85 mm, giving me a square engine for better revs. He says that there is enough metal in the block for such a bore. The pistons would be from a NA 4G63. 'Round $850 inc. labor and parts.
03-03-2003, 02:14 PM
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I really think you should get a beta2 head. If you're going to go for higher revs, there's HLA's in the beta1 head which I've heard mixed reviews over but the beta2 head has MLA's which I haven't heard anything bad about. On top of which, if you don't have a kore charge for the head that's on your 1.6 then you can take the exhaust cam out of it and drop it in the beta2 head. The exhaust cam in the 1.6 I believe is better than the beta2. I know the exhaust cam in the 1.8 is better than beta2's and I think 1.6 and 1.8 have the same head. But the intake cam in the beta2 is better than beta1. As far as the guy is concerned, if he's legitimate then go for it. If he can do what he says he can then yeah. Up here, work on an engine is so expensive that something like that seems like a con but I don't know what the cost of living is there. You live in Mexico don't you (I say pecos in there). To me it seems damn good but I again don't know cost of living and stuff there. I was going to build my engine myself but now you got me wondering if it would be worth it to take it down there HAHA!
HAHA!