Ive broken 3rd gear in my 97 gearbox.

Its almost out of the car, so far I've found a gear tooth stuck to the drain plug.
Got a spare 1.8L gearbox to through in there, but no new release bearing/pressure plate.

Anyone done the fiddle job of installing gearbox WITHOUT a new release bearing and pplate?
I imagine its possible to slide the fork into the bearing already on the pplate, but it looks like a PITA, given that the
release bearing can rotate and not accept the fork.

Since I'm probably pulling this spare gearbox out again in a few weeks, I dont want to waste more $$ on bearings and pplates.

Thats too bad, are you boosted? If so, what kind of HP? I am going to need to worry about shearing gears as well so it would be nice to get an idea of the power levels people are shearing gears at.

I have installed the trans with the TOB still snapped into the PP. You are correct about it looking like a PITA, it is, lol. Only took about three tries with the trans on my chest, lol. Talk about being tired as hell when I finally got it in and the input shaft into the clutch plate so I could slide the trans onto the support pins in the block.

Just make sure the TOB is in a vertical position, and mark the fork spline when the forks are a little less than perpendicular to the TOB (so it doesn't fold the wrong way when it hits the PP). Then have someone hold the fork in that position until you get the input shaft into the clutch disc, then have them turn the fork clockwise so the forks go through the TOB.

Then bolt the trans to the block in a couple of places, hook up the slave cylinder, put the trans in gear, spin the engine by hand at the cam gear or crank pulley, with the clutch pedal up the diff should be spinning when you spin the engine. When you depress the clutch pedal and spin the engine with the trans in gear, the diff should NOT be spinning. Have someone in the car holding the clutch pedal down, someone else turning over the engine, and put your finger into the diff to feel if it is spinning; if it isn't then you've got it!

That is how you can confirm you got it before throwing the axles in and the engine/trans mounts, etc. in.

But you CAN do it. fing02.gif

BTW: if you are replacing a 2L with the 1.8, just an FYI, the gears are noticably shorter. 60 mph in 5th is at 3000 rpm. Don't feel like converting that to km/h for you, too lazy, lol.

Good luck.

Cool, I figured it could be done with a little patience. good tip on checking before axles go in.

I'm running about 200KW at the wheels.
I think it happened on the way back from the coast, I was driving on a short dirt road but with lots
of corrugations in the road and I was in 3rd gear low revs using torque to drive me along.

It could also be a side affect of the number of times Ive removed/installed the gearbox without paying too much
attention to loading on the input shaft.
3rd gear is the only gear on the input shaft so I suspect its a contributing factor.

Ahhh, well how many hp is 200 kw?

I don't speak in foreign measurement terms!!! Haha.

270hp, aussie dynos are a little different. probably around 300 on a dynojet.

You might want to give taking the TOB off the PP a chance, its not that hard and there are a few threads about it on here. Ive done it a few times.

I spoke to MADJOHN and he said he can get some turbo gears for the beta 1 bus they come from
Still waiting for a response from him to get details on these gears he is talking about!!!
If anyone is intrested forward your intrest to Madjohn and possibly get them done for us.......
Been waitig for these gears FOR A LONG TIME hail.gif

What consists of these "turbo gears".


Lets see, Rob, lets say your rod keeps breaking at 450whp, and instead of buying forged rods you just want to toughen up stock ones. How would you do so? <---riddle of the day.

Tanc!
Well im waiting for his reply on this as he mentioned he can get two types which are for Highway ore acceleration stronger gears.I did ask him to give me more details and pics on these gears hes talking about

BTW regarding your riddle...You saying these are OEM tranny gears which are possibly HEAT treated? hmmmm,,,
Am i right? lmao.gif lmao.gif lmao.gif

We all love Mad John, and yeah, he can get us lots of stuff.

Hell, he could be the best supplier of Korean parts to the entire world.

But he's not. He rarely returns emails, PM's, or replies to his own posts here. Look them up, you'll see I'm right. I love the guy, he's passionate about the cars, knows perfect english and hangul, but just doesn't follow through. I've been trying to get a set of brake calipers from him for the past what, 6 months? 6 months to get a shipping quote.

Now I've been trying to contact him for 3 weeks about a clutch.

^^^Yeah, I PM'ed him about his turbo manifold a while back when he was selling all that stuff and he never replied to my multiple messages.

My plan is to install my stage 4 clutch with the 1.8 trans, rip apart the beta II trans, send the gears out for cryo treating, and install the quaife when I get the gears back. Then when I put the built block in to really boost it, the trans will be 100% ready. smile.gif .

But if MadJohn could get some already treated or perhaps made of a stronger alloy then I would be totally in.

Rob,

cryogenic gears
shot peened gears


Do some research on those 2 processes because if you find a shop that has the equitment for those treatments than you bring your stock gears to them.

Ya if only Mad_John would be around here more helping us out. He has so much information a lot of us could really benefit from.

Thanks for your response guys..
Im been trying for weeks to get a reply back from him but NO CAN DO............
Just wondering how much stronger with Cryo treating and shot peening the gears would make them and possibly running full boost in 5th gear lmao.gif

I know this has been convered before but i believe the gearing in the beta 2 tranny are taller and would be better for a boosted application..Think it was 5th gear........
Also arent the bets 2 trannys stronger internally?

Tanc
Thanks for the heads up haha.gif haha.gif
Thanks

http://www.nitrofreeze.com/racing.html

http://www.nitrofreeze.com/cryogenictreatm...otorsports.html

fing02.gif

come on now.. you guys got to keep on my ass really.. i am not going to make any excuses but you know how life can get some times. late nights working. building cars and what not... as for the Reds your looking at 34~40 for you brakes "due to the weight" and priority shipping.. as for the gears i am having my doughs on my supplier so i bought a 5 sets from him and i am having them.. tested that means "X-rayed, NDT testing, and eddy current testing as well.. this will take a few weeks due to the simple fact that my guy that is testing them works for KAL "Korean airlines" he has all the equipment in inchon. they have about 5 company's that make gears for Hyundai in korea.. OEM, dong yang, mando, asain, a new company in Pusan witch i am going to go take a look at next week.. like i said to to 2uniq they are not cheap and even with my hook up i was only able to get them for a 100 buck less.. i know the problems all to well with the tibby tranny, i have 2 spare ones in my room right now.. "just in case" from my experience with this car the one thing i did notice was heat crack on the tranny case witch lead me to believe that the failer 50/50 heat and the gears.. i have made a tranny cooler for my tibby as well.. pic will come soon.. but since the gears come with case harding only. its safe to say that the new ones are heat treated as well. but when i know you will know Koreans are some what lazy like this red know what i am talking about..

what clutch you looking for Top .. this is the fist i head about it.. do you want the flywheel as well.

RDT is set to my homepage so i do check..

Thanks for your reply MadJohn.............
My question to you is out of the 5 companies which did you go with and if its still holding up?
We all know from the 5 companies you posted we DONT want the OEM ones lmao.gif
The price you just sent me was around $1500 and i sent you a message back to you stating where there from and what company is this from?
Thanks
Let me know and possibly have a GB going......
I no iw ill be the first one to grap a complete set........... nana.gif

Wow, you are really willing to shed out some cash for these!

I would think you would be willing to try the cryo treatment (freezing the gears to a temp of -300 F for 24 hours, then letting them come up to ambient temp and heating them to 400 F), which should cost less than $100 rather than spend $1500 on gears!

Those gears better hold up for that friggin price! LOL.

^then do that, and dont waste my time see this is what i am taking about.. Even the GT1 class tibby that race over here they break there shit too


Well my ride will be the test dummy its will be done by the end of next month i will test them hard

.. well as for the price the should hold but will not hold "stupid"...


i get really hesitant to do shit like this, if i did not know anyone who could do the above mentioned tests... well look around and find out how much it is and then you will see how much it costs.. for what i spent on my car in the last 5 years alone.. i could have 2 1/2 R34's..

Like red says i am hard to get a hold of and I want to help but i got tired of people b****ing about the price's. if you own a Tiburon you will spend money.. its not like no Honda or evo.. shit just to get over 550hp in a skyline you need 10,000 USD and thats mild..

I
i would go out make calls visit shops and ask the questions u ask.. don't get me wrong i like to help people here but when i get people prices they say its too much... for example the dollar " our money" is in the toilet here for Evey 100 USD we loose 20... i am not making shit off of you people i should but i don't. that is just me..since i lost my job 2 years ago i have been working at my friends tunning shop build turbo cars the whole thing baby.. hell if TDonnell had the program to read my maps i would give them to everyone here.. people have to remember that i live in korea and they do business in a whole different way.. but that is another post..LOL


but the "its $$$" crap has to stop.. i have over 7G's in my tranny and clutch alone... the dog gears for the tibby will cost you 8,000 dollors..so 1500 is cheap in my book..

MAdJohn
I dont mind spending $1500 if these gears will hold the power i want over 300-400WHP with no issues becuase in the long run you can end up spending more in fixing broken trannys with Labour.
My question though is what material are these gears made with?
How much stronger are they from OEM?
Out of the 5 companies you posted above who makes the gear!!
Thanks

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (2UNIQ @ Feb 18 2008, 12:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>MAdJohn
I dont mind spending $1500 if these gears will hold the power i want over 300-400WHP with no issues becuase in the long run you can end up spending more in fixing broken trannys with Labour.

True and not true


My question though is what material are these gears made with?

dont know that yet

How much stronger are they from OEM?

i dont know yet

Out of the 5 companies you posted above who makes the gear!!

all of them..

Thanks</div>

not a problem cool.gif

Cool!!
As soon as you test them or find out the material its made with and how much WHP it can hold post on the forum or let me know
You have an estimate on when you can get this info?
Just to make sure i DONT want the OEM gears to be one of the manufactures but the other 4 companies lmao.gif lmao.gif

Thanks for stopping in MJ. What else have you done to strengthen your transmission? Could you possibly make a thread on the push/pull conversion?

Got the bearing off by bolting the pressure plate to a spare flywheel, that made more room, then just 2 screwdrivers and it popped off.

1.8 gearbox is in, seems to run OK, now to take 2.0 gearbox apart.

BTW please keep to topic.

^ right on,

now i post up a link to the tear down and reassembly of the tranny.. if i am not mistaken it should be a stick.. hope that help.

The topic is strengthening the transmission so people arent breaking things. The clutch is what people have had issues with also.

Nah the topic is my broken gear box and replacing it. If you want to talk about strengthening gearboxes, make another thread.

Oh well from post 7 on was about making it stronger. So replace it then. If you broke it once you will probably just break it again right? May want to think about making it stronger.

Since its 10years old, 5yrs with boost, I'm pretty happy it lasted this long.

I dont believe it needs to be strengthened so no need for the hijacking thanks.

Pics!!


http://b.whaite.com/gearboxapart.jpg

Broken teeth
http://b.whaite.com/brokenteeth.jpg

Teeth missing off 3rd gear
http://b.whaite.com/3rdgearcloseup.jpg

looks like i started a new trend... lmao.gif

Sorry if I offended you Jon, I in no way meant to trash what you are doing, but it is somewhat aggrivating when you don't get replies to multiple PM's; even if they were months late it would be nice to hear something. But yeah I know how life can get so no biggie.

I just wanted to get the other options out there is all.

Seems like our trannies kind of suck when it comes to gear durability.

I guess everyone starts shearing teeth at around 300 torque?

MadJohn
Any updates?
Did you end up finding out what material its made from etc....
Thanks hail.gif

dude, just PM him, this thread isnt about that.

parts parts and more parts

no 3rd gear in country, need to order from korea, another 2 weeks..


http://b.whaite.com/gearbox/parts2.jpg

homer. ask and thy shale receive.. i have 3 here..

from the look of your gear stack and the way it shear off.. that is classic of most beta trannys here. your lucky you did not take the whole thing with it..

now one of the trick we use here when setting backlash is the OEM spacers are good but if you want to be dead on and it seem to make them hold up to the Tq better are you ready

make a space out of a COKE CAN i am not shitting you.. i use that when setting the backlash on the FGR and guess what i stooped frying ring gears.. also if you can get the tranny bearings other then OEM like Koyo or nsk they tend to take the betting better and don't flex under the heat...

IMHO i believe that the root cause of our trannys blowing apart is HEAT. HEAT of the engine and the road, the rad. the clutch and the tranny itself. the heat has no where to go.. now take a good look at you inside of you tranny case.. see all them cracks those are not cracks from the casting but cracks from heat..
the since our gears are small they make allot of heat so in turn they fatigue and the snap off.. this is my theoy...

MJ, Since you say its heat isnt there a way to help that? I remember you saying you had yours going through a cooler somehow? We need specs on that. I would assume it just comes out the bottom drain and goes through a cooler and back up top. With the help of a pump of course. Info needed on that!