Bringing NA mods into balance for max power
08-27-2002, 03:40 PM
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Bringing NA mods into balance for max power
for those who are versed in this subject, i want to do ECU work to squeeze every horse from a CAI/60mm TB/ GT cam/ SR 4-1 headers/ full catback setup. HDK autosport is the only company i've seen that advertises ECU reprogramming for a decent price, but i wish to do no more business with them than necessary. what is the best way to extract the most power from these mods? a new ECU, like a haltech, etc? which one is best, and where would this be able to be tuned? also, what kind of #s are possible at the crank with ECU work? i'd like to keep the engine management under 1000 dollars, but i'd like any knowledge you guys have to give. thanks.
08-28-2002, 01:32 AM
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Vehicle: 1997 accent L
It modifies the signal from the MAF sensor to allow you to modify your fuel curves. Along with dyno time and a wideband o2 sensor, you can get decent gains with it.
KORE is developing chips for the beta swaps, so chips for other applications could be coming soon.
[ August 28, 2002, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: skierd ]
KORE is developing chips for the beta swaps, so chips for other applications could be coming soon.
[ August 28, 2002, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: skierd ]
08-28-2002, 06:00 AM
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I generally advocate against a statically-programmed "chip" for a normally aspirated car. A modified ECU for your car makes more power by adjusting fuel delivery and ignition timing curves. The problem is that someone who isn't sitting in your car testing against YOUR setup cannot accurately predict what fuel and ignition changes are most beneficial.
Thus, for best results, I would suggest exactly what the others said: An S-AFC for programmable fuel control, and if you want, an ITC for programmable ignition control. The ITC works the exact same way that the AFC does; it intercepts the crank angle or cam angle sensor and makes adjustments to allow you +/- 15 degrees of ignition timing change.
An S-AFC alone is enough to make a noticeable amount of power on the dyno -- wheel horsepower increases of 5% is almost guaranteed; I've had as much as 8% increase on my car with a lot of bolt-on N/A parts.
An ITC will only further your luck, although I have no numbers on-hand.
These two pieces are different than a "chip" because you can tune them exactly to what your car has now... And can then RE-tune them to what you may need in the future. Yes, they cost more, and they require dyno time. But the power output will be substantially different and you'll never have to pay to "rechip" the car when you make upgrades later.
Of course, if you really want to get nasty, yes a Haltech unit will make your car unbelievably tweakable -- but at a cost. $1200 for the brain easily, plus hours of tuning time. On a stock N/A car, it wouldn't suprise me to find another 15 horsepower hidden in there, but is $1200 worth it for a mostly stock car? Probably not.
The Haltech has it's uses, but probably not quite at that level wink
Thus, for best results, I would suggest exactly what the others said: An S-AFC for programmable fuel control, and if you want, an ITC for programmable ignition control. The ITC works the exact same way that the AFC does; it intercepts the crank angle or cam angle sensor and makes adjustments to allow you +/- 15 degrees of ignition timing change.
An S-AFC alone is enough to make a noticeable amount of power on the dyno -- wheel horsepower increases of 5% is almost guaranteed; I've had as much as 8% increase on my car with a lot of bolt-on N/A parts.
An ITC will only further your luck, although I have no numbers on-hand.
These two pieces are different than a "chip" because you can tune them exactly to what your car has now... And can then RE-tune them to what you may need in the future. Yes, they cost more, and they require dyno time. But the power output will be substantially different and you'll never have to pay to "rechip" the car when you make upgrades later.
Of course, if you really want to get nasty, yes a Haltech unit will make your car unbelievably tweakable -- but at a cost. $1200 for the brain easily, plus hours of tuning time. On a stock N/A car, it wouldn't suprise me to find another 15 horsepower hidden in there, but is $1200 worth it for a mostly stock car? Probably not.
The Haltech has it's uses, but probably not quite at that level wink
08-28-2002, 06:42 AM
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true true, on a slighly modified tibby to heavily modified N/A tibby, the s-afc is your ONLY sane choice for a piggy-back controller. A full ecu replacement or haltek-like system is overkill.
Buy a s-afc $299+-
hour or so tuning on dyno $100+-
bingo, extra whp smile.gif and your car likes you better smile.gif
Buy a s-afc $299+-
hour or so tuning on dyno $100+-
bingo, extra whp smile.gif and your car likes you better smile.gif
08-28-2002, 07:06 AM
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08-28-2002, 03:55 PM
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sorry if i sound like i'm beating the dead horse, but it'll be a while before i get the cash for my nitrous. is a full blown N/A setup with an S AFC and all the above mentioned mods capable of beating most of the stock competition? by that i mean, can i get up to par of say a celica gts or even rsx type s? i don't see why not, but what must i do to be able to beat my teammate johns celica, N/a. give me thoughts. thanks