Another Ticking/knocking engine
 

Hi,



A couple of days ago we went and bought a 2000 Tiburon with 98k miles on it (2.0 liter automatic). Its been used as a daily driver and will be in the future as well.

I have one concern though, and that is that the engine ticks/knocks a bit more than i "would like it to". The guy i bought it from claimed that he had had 3 "mechanics" looking into this saying that its nothing to worry too much about. My -95 VW Golf used to knock a bit as well, but thats mostly due to its mechanic lifters.



I think its the lifters since the sound seems to be coming from the top part of the engine. Yesterday i put some of Marvels Mystery Oil into the fuel and a small amount into the oil. Have looked around and some people say it might help, being the cheapest of all solutions at only $3 for a small bottle.



Others say that if a non-OEM oil filter is used, there might be a lack of oil pressure to the lifters, creating this noise. I have not yet checked what kind of oil filter is used, but i don't think the previous owner put in an OEM one. The oil seem to be changed recently, being very clean.



Anyone have any suggestions what else I should do?



Thank you

iI always used wix oil filters but at 98k miles take the valve cover off and see if the chains are loose possibly slapping on the wall

Okey, will have a look at the chains.

The ticking/knocking increases with RPM. Might be good to know for you guys to diagnose the problem. :)

First few posts in this thread https://www.hyundaiaftermarket.org/f...valve-ticking/



The search function here works, if you use the right keywords https://www.hyundaiaftermarket.org/f...arch_in=forums

Thank you very much!

Have searched around this board for some information, but appear to have missed the one you posted your "guide" in.

Will try to find some additive to do an engine oil flush with. Will have a search around for suitable filters for these engines ;)

What kind of synthetic oil do you guys recommend? Sorry for my lack of knowledge, but whats a generally good oil for the climate of Southern California?



Thanks yet again!



Edit, actually found the DIY thread about oil flush and oil change which answered all my un-written questions. :)

Anything 10w-30 will be just fine in Cali. I would stray away from thicker stuff. Also really these days with oil and Synthetic oil is probably going to be a decent oil.

Is the only way to get an OEM filter to go to a Hyundai dealer and buy it straight from them?

There are no other shops that sells OEM filters? Figured the dealer won't be the most economical store :P

One of our vendors (is?) was a dealer, look in the vendor forums they still may be offering discounts. There are also online sellers of OEM parts (rockauto comes to mind) that sometimes have better prices on OEM parts. But the dealership can't be making a living selling filters. Especially for troubleshooting just this once, they are a convenient source of known-genuine parts. The cost for peace of mind (or eliminating a potential source of trouble) is worth it at least once eh.

I agree. Don't have that far a drive to a local hyundai dealer, and i guess shipping won't be free on just an oil filter. So in the end its probably the same money.

Will have a closer look tomorrow underneath the car (bought it a couple of days ago) to see what kind of oil filter thats currently installed.

Right now I'm just hoping that its not too late, so that i might end up having to do major repairs to the car... Trying to get rid of another car that has been costing me more than what i had planned...



Thanks for the incredible fast replies :)

Sometimes your can get them in bulk off of ebay. incredibly cheap

...and, unless the seller is a dealer, who says they're not chinese counterfeits! I trust a dealer 10000x more than any ebay seller. A knockoff window regulator doesn't kill the heart of the car, and a cheap replacement armrest might not fit but the engine will still run...

True, there are some things that might be worth the chance to buy from Ebay, and some things you don't. I havent used ebay that much, mostly things costing a couple of dollars worth only, so no big loss.



Edit: Due to utter laziness, which i have been commented on i removed my question and figured id find out myself. I apologize.

Now you don't even care. It takes 40 seconds to look!

Did have a look at it today, but all i could make out from the sticker (which was torn up) was S2808. Im guessing this is some part number or something?

Does anyone know if this is an OEM filter? Did some research and it seems to be an STP filter. Doesn't really look like the sticker of an STP filter, but as i said its a bit torn to pieces... Im guessing this is NOT an OEM filter.

Thanks

Holy cow dude you should have had the new OEM filter on already by now, just go do it!

Will go get one as soon as possible. Haven't driven the car that much, but just haven't had the time to check due to school...

When i do a flush and change the oil and filter, and ad some Mystery Oil i should make out a difference in about 15 mins of careful driving as you stated in the other thread you linked to? Don't know how long the knocking has been going on when the previous owner had it. Could running it with this knocking have caused severe damage to the engine/cams?



When i get 10w30, should it be High mileage or just plain 10w30 Synthetic from Mobil 1? Found that the High mileage from Mobil 1 is cheaper, but if thats not what I'm supposed to use i won't.



Thanks guys

theres actually a TSB from hyundai regarding knocking and non OEM filters. i found one that seems to work well, but not sure if you can get it where you are. i'm sure its just sold under a different name but i wouldn't know how to find it. ones i use are from carquest in canada.



maybe try to buy a flat of them from a dealer? also there are cheap parts dealers online....i think 1sthyundaiparts is one. just a few thoughts.

1sthyundai had a shipping and handling fee of 14 bucks, so ill just order and pickup at the local dealer.



Do anyone know the part number for the Oil filter? Havent been able to find the OEM number, just numbers from all different kinds of manufacturers.



Should i use high mileage oil or regular synthetic oil?



Thanks for looking after this beginner

Go to the dealer and say "oil filter." They were the same for all engines for a LONG time, not sure if they are still the same part.



Use a synthetic oil of the appropriate weight for your climate. In SD that means 10W30 pretty much year round. Brand almost doesn't matter, and get high mileage mix if you want.

Okey Thanks, Will give them a call on monday instead to order the filter. Makes it more simple than order through their online store...

Im guessing i should stay away from cheap brands, but that Mobil and Castrol oils are good.



Now i just have to wait until the dealer opens on Monday, and then to get some time and it should be done :) i also have to find some sort of engine flush to run through the system before i change the oil and filter.

Thanks guys!

Okey guys, I've now done an engine flush with Gunk, changed the oil filter to an OEM filter, and added some 10W30 fully synthetic Mobil 1 oil together with 1/2 quarts of Marvel mystery oil. I have just done some driving and it still is ticking/knocking. At first just as much as before, but when i pulled into the parking space and gave it some 2k revs it didn't knock as badly as before.

Hopefully the ticking sound will decrease more when i drive it a bit more. I'll have to wait until tomorrow to drive it a bit more, and see what that does.



The sound does however decrease when i lift of the throttle, and then start again at idle or after shifting a gear (automatic).



Guess time will tell if this made any difference, but at least now i know that there is an OEM filter on the engine, and not a STP which the previous owner had put on...

O_o



What are the chances of getting an oil pressure gauge on your engine for a quick check? It's late and I may not be thinking clearly, but noise at low engine speed (idle) and high load (after shifting) just made me think bad things like 'tired oil pump' or 'loose bottom end bearings.' Or maybe you got some of the HLAs to stop ticking and another oil flush will be required.



For ticking HLAs, Hyundai says it's "normal" if it lasts <15 minutes. Usually getting a block down the road or maybe a few blocks on a cold day is enough for my engine to quiet down, if it ticks at startup. They also say not to rev the engine past 3kRPM while this is happening.



Know that the injectors and valvetrain are not ever totally quiet on these cars. If you are used to a different type of engine noise, it can seem pretty loud with the hood of an RD up and the engine running. Can you post a soundclip or video of the engine running? Can you meet up with another member in San Diego and listen to their car?

The engine ticks at idle and under load like you said, but not when i release the throttle. Im not sure, but could there be the fuel injectors since it stops when the engine is not under load.




The sound continues after 15 mins of light driving. After driving for about 50 minutes the sound decreases to a reasonable amount.

Ill try to get some video of the sound so that you guys can listen to it, and maybe figure out what to do next :/





About the oil pressure gauge, is there any where and how-tos available for the 2.0l hyundai engine?





Video is up:







<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Gqp7mD82zBQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

^i have the SAME noise from my car right now lol. same exact situation.

That was actually exactly what I was hoping to see/hear in your video. The smaller hissing/clattering/chattering by the intake manifold is the fuel injectors, and is normal. I was thinking the loud noise at the first part of your video might be an engine-driven accessory with a bad bearing but you got closer and it is pretty clearly a top-end engine noise. That seems to me very likely to be the HLAs not being pumped full of oil, or not holding their oil properly.



There is an accessible oil gallery on the driver's side of the engine, on the front/bottom/right corner of the head as you look at the engine. You should be able to (never had to do it personally) measure oil pressure at the head from that spot. There is a rib (the oil passage) that runs the length of the head over the exhaust manifold and at the right end of it there is a hex socket (the plug). Pull plug, insert gauge. Do this with the engine off, and have towels ready!



It could be that only one or more (or all of the) HLAs are on their way out, and the oil pressure is fine. The HLAs are a couple hundred dollars for a full set (sold individually at the dealership) and if you can borrow a gauge the oil pressure check is free.



Unfortunately to inspect the HLAs you have to pull the camshafts which is not hard but REQUIRES a torque wrench to put them back on without breaking the bolts. Come to think of it, you want a torque wrench for replacing the valve cover as well, and for the same reason! You also have to set the timing which is not too hard but you have to have the tools and you have to get it right.



For future reference, you can rev the engine by manually rotating the throttle body pulley, no getting in the car required.

Forgot about that, will make it a lot easier next time :P



This is turning out to be more than a nightmare than i hoped for :/ Moved to the US bout' 3 months ago due to studies and do not have any tools what so ever here. Had to buy the 17mm socket just to take care of the oil plug.

That means i do not own any torque wrench, and doubt any of my friends do either... A used one for around 30 bucks, is that anything to consider?



Would it be possible to replace only a few HLA's and try to figure out which ones are bad? Don't get me wrong here, but I don't want to put too much money into this car that i won't get back. The car in general is not in the best shape with bad paint. Figured we bought it at a good price, but now after closer consideration maybe it wasn't as a good deal as we thought...



Is driving the car bad if i keep it under 3k rpm? Actually did a longer drive a couple of days ago and it was actually quieter when we got home than it has ever been.



Oh, i put Mobil 1 oil in the car, together with 1/2 quart of Marvel mystery oil hoping that that would clear it. It won't be running on to thin oil after putting the 1/2 quart of mystery oil in it, right?



Will have to figure out what to do, but maybe there is no other choice than to change the HLA's, and pray that the car will last forever -_-

i agree! this happened to me before a few times. all i did was have an oil change and it went away after driving. before trying all that work, i would go with a Hyundai brand OEM filter and an oil change and just drive.

Usually you can just get away with bleeding the HLAs. They only have teensy tiny oil holes, which get clogged easily. It suxorz that you have to remove the camshafts to do it, but what the hey. You just immerse the HLA in a cup of engine oil, then poke the nipple with a pin until it stops bubbling air.

This is actually what i did a couple of days ago. Did a engine flush, put an OEM filter on with high quality oil but this didn't change anything, yet...



This might be a temporary solution. Guess ill have to get myself a torque wrench and do a lot of reading before tearing apart the engine. Have never done more than refilling fluids or changing oil, but learning is fun :)



Edit: Would the HLA's cause a bit of an uneven idle when the engine is cold?

One of our members just had an HLA fail (with aftermarket cams and valve springs) and an exhaust valve was stuck open . . . it ran badly. :lol: They are what push the valves open. If that is happening in hit-or-miss fashion then it could conceivably cause uneven idle quality.



The information is all out there if you search for it. Be sure to know what you are doing before diving in to this job - you can't drive to the parts store with the cams out! :duh5:

Yeah i saw that, looked nasty!

Well i can't say I'm not afraid to mess things up, maybe ill just wait until the title gets here and try to sell it :/

How long will you be here for school? It may be worth the expense of buying tools and fixing a relatively minor problem if this car is in otherwise fairly decent working condition. Remember any car you will get for cheap will have minor problems.

Ill be here for at least another 2 years, so ill stay a while :)

Got it for 2600, with an empty AC (Aircon) and semi bad paint, but with "only" 98k miles on the engine and trans. The car itself is straight and with very few minor dents. Its really just the paint (clear coat peeling off), and the knocking engine thats bad.



Yea maybe it is, i guess ill gain some experience from the work done to it as well.

You'd say that this fix is a minor fix? I know it requires some taking apart and putting together, but it doesn't sound to be impossible to do by an average joe?



I really appreciate your help guys, i really do! :)



Edit: How far will i get with a torque wrench (about 30 dollars at O'Reilly, and a set of sockets to match? Im guessing that would total at about 50 dollars, and if thats basically what i need maybe ill go through with replacing the HLA's.



Would like to find out if the oil pump is bad before though, just need to find myself an oil gauge...

A couple of screwdrivers and a metric wrench set will get the whole car to its nuts and bolts and back again. If you are able to follow instructions and can manage to not screw up removing and replacing bolts, these are pretty simple cars to work on. Also easy to take apart so you need a very good mechanic to put back together working so be sure what you are doing before you begin!

Okey, then ill do some searching looking for a possible DIY or some other guide on how to replace the HLA's

Well, yes i can follow instructions and should manage not to screw up bolts etc, but the way i read it i need to be a good mechanic to put it back together in working condition? Or did i not get that sentence?

Found a service manual for the RD at Newtonnet, which looks good. Just need to figure out what parts of it that applies to removing the HLA's :)



Edit: Think I've found what I'm looking for: How-To Remove Camshafts

You are picking on my pet peeve . . . instead of using the "Reply" button to respond to the last post in a thread, please use scroll down just another few inches and use the Add Reply or Fast Reply instead. That way, we don't have to read the same post twice in a row. Responses are assumed to be directed at the last post in a thread anyway.





The last link is what you were looking for. It even shows how to test the HLAs and gives torque specifications. Be very careful to adhere to MINIMUM torque specifications. These bolts break easily. It also mentions the oil level TWICE . . . you are sure you have enough oil in the engine, right?



If you take it all apart, and don't keep track of what goes where and what does what, you might need a good mechanic to get it back working again . . . and these cars are easy to take apart. I think if you are persistent to find the information you want (and it is almost all out there on the web) you will find these cars are pretty easy to work on for most problems.

i didn't read the whole thread but judging by the video you need to bleed the hla's.

Ah okey Stocker, i didn't notice you "unqouted" my replies. Sorry about that. :Unsure2:



Yes I'm sure i have the right amount of oil in the car, have been checking it a few times since i changed the oil.

Ive read through the instructions a couple of times now, and it doesn't seem to hard to do. I think ill simply remove them and bleed them before buying a set of new ones. Maybe they can be rescued.



Just two more question, will i have to replace the head gasket no matter what? Or can i put the same one back if its in a good condition? And do i need to get the Cylinder head bolt wrench & Camshaft oil seal installer or can i just use ordinary sockets to remove the bolts and to somehow fit the oil seal again?



Will get the proper tools this coming week and maybe get the work done next weekend. Then i have plenty of time to get the guts to do it :thumb up:



Edit: Was thinking i should check the oil pressure first since its cheaper than a set of HLA's. Question is though if i should take the car to a shop for a quick check, or simply buy a cheap oil pressure tester, like this? Cheap Oil Pressure Tester

How you check the oil pressure is up to you. If the cost is similar, I'd rather have a tool than have someone else use their tool . . . because next time you can do it yourself also, free! In this case it's probably cheaper to buy the tool so I would probably at least try that first.



For checking the HLAs, no head gasket is required, because the head can stay on the engine. Look here again at the photo SpoolinShark posted - this is work you can do without removing the cylinder head. I've had the cams out on my car repeatedly, and never replaced the oil seal on the exhaust cam and it doesn't leak. Just be careful.



One bright side: they improved the part, so theoretically if you do end up replacing HLAs, you'll get better performance out of the new ones. :thumbup:

Yea, maybe ill get myself a oil pressure test kit, since i doubt a shop will do the check for only 30 bucks.



Okey, i understand that i don't have to take the complete head of the engine, but theres a gasket between the top of the cylinder head and the cylinder head cover. But I'm guessing i won't need to replace that if I'm just cautious when removing the cover.



Yea, if i replace them i hope i won't have to do it again as long as i own and drive the car :P



Since you've had the cams out do you know if the smallest size of the sockets needed are 10mm? Seems like the kits are from 10-18mm or from like 4-12mm. Ive seen on the site how to remove the cams that its 10 and 12 mm thats used, but will i need anything smaller (to remove the cover or anything).



Sorry if I'm being tedious, but id like to research a lot before doing things like this... :)