How To Downshift
05-11-2007, 10:13 AM
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And If anyone would like to see it in action, go rent the movie "initial D" its NOT a cartoon or animation, I liked the movie it was ok, lot of cool stuff, but everytime they race they show you teh drivers feet and they heel-toe REALLY fast all the time.....
05-11-2007, 11:30 AM
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awwww dammit, i just wrote thsi long reply to answer everybody's questions and it signed off.
I hate this.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LNHeart)</div><div class='quotemain'>I read this once on a magazine and tried to do it... i couldnt get a hold of it and didnt want to practice this in public roads to much.</div>
You can practice rev matching first so you get to know how much blip is needed and master that..
They try and incorporate it all into one action, might make things easier.
Also there is High Performance Drivers Education (HPDE) events sponsored by the National Auto Sport Association (NASA). Lots of times insurance companies will reduce your rate after completing a course! wink1.gif
If you really live in Hereford (sorry..) the closest events to you would be West Phoenix (Phoenix Int'l Raceway) or even closer Easy Chandler (Firebird Int'l Raceway). There's also Arroyo Seco across the border (NM Border) off the 10 (somewhere by Dering I think or something..)
No NASA Events held there (yet) but they do Test N. Tune days.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rd1tib)</div><div class='quotemain'>I tried it before and it seem to be that the brakes get pressed a bit more and jerk a bit.</div>
You're using your calfs to roll your foot out and blip the throttle and in turn are pressing the brake pedal harder without realizing it.
That's what sucks about the tib's pedals. The throttle is considerably farther down than the brake pedal (even when applied). It's still do-able but you need flexible legs (no joke, I had leg cramps for days my first week doing this in the tib).
An ideal pedal set-up would throttle and brake pedal on an even plane (give or take 1/2" whatever) and throttle pedal moved closer to brake pedal (which also give you more room on the right side of the throttle pedal for your leg).
But this set-up sorta sucks when you're drivign around casually in big shoes or flip flops or something, so don't go bending your throttle pedal assembly unless this is an important thing for you.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GreatWhiteTibby)</div><div class='quotemain'>This is a newb question, but I have never been good at figuring the revs needed to match wheel speed. Is there some sort of formula you used to determine that 25 mph = 2600 RPM or do you just learn that from driving the car and practicing? My downshifts aren't terribly jerky, but you can definitely tell that its a standard transmission and not an autotragic</div>
Yes. Given tire revolutions and the outer circumference, the axle ratio, and transmission ratio appropriate to the gear in question you could get an answer in engine revs per minute for any situation but that's a lot of pen and paper work while cornering around a turn.
Keep in mind, if your wheel speed is 2,347 revolutions per minute you don't need to blip the throttle to get exactly 2,347 engine revolutions per minute. Close enough will do, or TLAR (That Looks About Right).
I'd suggest practicing rev matching before getting into the nitty gritty of the heel-and-toe. Do your regular routine while downshifting and practice blipping the throttle to match wheel speed before letting out the clutch. I'd suggets starting conservatively and working your way up. By that I mean start while going in a straight line and blip the throttle too little and continually work your way up until you find the sweet spot to blip and release.
Reason being, I don't want you to embaress yourself by blipping the throttle way too much and having to wait for the engine revs to come down before letting out the clutch or letting it out on accident and experincing a BIG jerk.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J3ROMY)</div><div class='quotemain'>thats not how i do it. i don't do it the first way, nore the second (correct) way. say if i was approaching a right hand corner going 90 mph in 4th and needed to be at 55, i would simply lightly apply brakes (avoiding locking them up) then shift into third and floor it once past the apex.</div>
Cool. But imagine braking and downshifting into third in the same second instead of taking two to brake and then downshift. I can see your reasoning, why do it all at once if I have to wait to accelerate after braking anyways ..I can just do it in the downtime inbetween. But if you have that downtime you are braking too soon.
I hate this.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LNHeart)</div><div class='quotemain'>I read this once on a magazine and tried to do it... i couldnt get a hold of it and didnt want to practice this in public roads to much.</div>
You can practice rev matching first so you get to know how much blip is needed and master that..
They try and incorporate it all into one action, might make things easier.
Also there is High Performance Drivers Education (HPDE) events sponsored by the National Auto Sport Association (NASA). Lots of times insurance companies will reduce your rate after completing a course! wink1.gif
If you really live in Hereford (sorry..) the closest events to you would be West Phoenix (Phoenix Int'l Raceway) or even closer Easy Chandler (Firebird Int'l Raceway). There's also Arroyo Seco across the border (NM Border) off the 10 (somewhere by Dering I think or something..)
No NASA Events held there (yet) but they do Test N. Tune days.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rd1tib)</div><div class='quotemain'>I tried it before and it seem to be that the brakes get pressed a bit more and jerk a bit.</div>
You're using your calfs to roll your foot out and blip the throttle and in turn are pressing the brake pedal harder without realizing it.
That's what sucks about the tib's pedals. The throttle is considerably farther down than the brake pedal (even when applied). It's still do-able but you need flexible legs (no joke, I had leg cramps for days my first week doing this in the tib).
An ideal pedal set-up would throttle and brake pedal on an even plane (give or take 1/2" whatever) and throttle pedal moved closer to brake pedal (which also give you more room on the right side of the throttle pedal for your leg).
But this set-up sorta sucks when you're drivign around casually in big shoes or flip flops or something, so don't go bending your throttle pedal assembly unless this is an important thing for you.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GreatWhiteTibby)</div><div class='quotemain'>This is a newb question, but I have never been good at figuring the revs needed to match wheel speed. Is there some sort of formula you used to determine that 25 mph = 2600 RPM or do you just learn that from driving the car and practicing? My downshifts aren't terribly jerky, but you can definitely tell that its a standard transmission and not an autotragic</div>
Yes. Given tire revolutions and the outer circumference, the axle ratio, and transmission ratio appropriate to the gear in question you could get an answer in engine revs per minute for any situation but that's a lot of pen and paper work while cornering around a turn.
Keep in mind, if your wheel speed is 2,347 revolutions per minute you don't need to blip the throttle to get exactly 2,347 engine revolutions per minute. Close enough will do, or TLAR (That Looks About Right).
I'd suggest practicing rev matching before getting into the nitty gritty of the heel-and-toe. Do your regular routine while downshifting and practice blipping the throttle to match wheel speed before letting out the clutch. I'd suggets starting conservatively and working your way up. By that I mean start while going in a straight line and blip the throttle too little and continually work your way up until you find the sweet spot to blip and release.
Reason being, I don't want you to embaress yourself by blipping the throttle way too much and having to wait for the engine revs to come down before letting out the clutch or letting it out on accident and experincing a BIG jerk.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J3ROMY)</div><div class='quotemain'>thats not how i do it. i don't do it the first way, nore the second (correct) way. say if i was approaching a right hand corner going 90 mph in 4th and needed to be at 55, i would simply lightly apply brakes (avoiding locking them up) then shift into third and floor it once past the apex.</div>
Cool. But imagine braking and downshifting into third in the same second instead of taking two to brake and then downshift. I can see your reasoning, why do it all at once if I have to wait to accelerate after braking anyways ..I can just do it in the downtime inbetween. But if you have that downtime you are braking too soon.