'treezy

The belt was brand new on there for about 6 hours.
rolleyes.gif

supercow

holy crap, I read this once but missed that it was a new belt. I thought that those kits were hyundai parts??

that really sucks!!!

REDZMAN

^^^
They are. Direct from Mobis.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Patreezy @ Jul 2 2006, 08:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>you can look for cams and maybe a full set of valves for a 1.8L because i have a 2.0L head with Viper right now (no differences as far as I know) and once i get that back I am going to attempt to get it running again.
Also you can post any opinions on what the hell caused the belt to shatter itself to pieces. Too bad I installed it myself because if i had a shop do it the place I got the belt from (not to be mentioned to keep certain 10k+ posters from being butt hurt, LOL nana.gif) would be getting a mouthful and then some....
..too bad. =(

Or you can look for a complete low mileage 2.0L engine with manual tranny for me.</div>

Well, first off, what kind of cams? If you need one ASAP, I've got a 1.8L cam you can have here. Otherwise I'd suggest you call Viper up and askhim if he can get that head done ASAP and get it back to you. It'll get you right back into the game with your same block, as long as there is no other damage. I'll start checking on some engines now. Where exactly in AZ is it going to?

As for opinions on why it failed? This is one of the items I probably will NEVER do on my own cars. It's just too pricy. if you mess it up, there goes your engine, as you know. These are my theories.

User Error

1. Installed too tight or too loose.

2. Belt loosened after driving due to heat (It's been in the 100's out there for the past week or 2 hasn't it?)

3. Belt loosened due to a tensioner issue. Shit, weren't you having an issue with one of the pulleys? The idler or something? Have you popped that off yet?

4. Timing issue.

MFR or Kspec Error

1. Belt off balance? I don't know if this is even possible, but if it is, you could have gotten a "silver bullet" belt. You know, one in a hundred thousand that make it out of QC and destroys an engine.

2. Shoddy build on belt. Do you have any #'s from it that we can check on for you?

3. Wrong item included. This IS possible, but I think most of the belts are even identical. I DO know that in Korea, they have some different pulleys than us (Hence why the pulley kits always had problems with belt types). The whole "Rev A." thing is only a term developed really by the folks here as far as I know man, it's possible that they have similar 'differences' in their tibs builds too, but I have no idea what they are.

4. I'm misinformed. I've been told numerous times that everything we sell is direct OEM from Mobis. I'm not in Korea so I can't verify that, but I know everything I've bought and recieved is. Someone could be lying to me and we could be selling parts with substandard qualities. I hope not, and tend to lean away from this theory, not just becasue I'm part of the company, but because of the very low rate of issues we've had with OEM parts. The #1 OEM part we have issues with is, if you belive it, Tuscani Emblems.

Other.

1. I was just doing some googling and it seems that some rubber based timing belts are very sensitive to oils, antifreeze, or lubricants, but only at VERY high temperatures. Didn't you have a hose explode in your bay some time ago? Power Steering maybe? Just an idea.

The main stuff I just ran across looking at Premature Timing Belt Failures are this.

1. Improper Tensioner adjustment or failure to replace the tensioner/idler pulleys.

2. Fluid contact on belt with high heat.

There are a bunch of TSB's on DSM motors about this too.

Anyways, just some ideas man. It sucks that it happened at all. I'll do some checking on an engine. Any prefrences?

BTW, you can post on our forums and probably at LEAST get a refund for the belt kit.

Blue Blaze

WOW sorry about the engine man. That just looks so horrible. Now I have second thoughts about changing the timing belt myself.

'treezy

Thank you Jeremy for your opinions. i wish we could talk face to face, I hate this interneat-o sh!t..

anyways, here's my attempt at a "conversation";

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Well, first off, what kind of cams? If you need one ASAP, I've got a 1.8L cam you can have here. Otherwise I'd suggest you call Viper up and askhim if he can get that head done ASAP and get it back to you. It'll get you right back into the game with your same block, as long as there is no other damage. I'll start checking on some engines now. Where exactly in AZ is it going to?</div>

I'm an unsure of whether or not I can put 2.0L cams in a 1.8L revA tiburon (with a 2.0L head) but 1.8L block AND STROKE. I don't think it's possible so I will HAVE to get 1.8L intake and exhaust cams. But honestly i may not even need them. There are a few scratches under the valve cover but that's it, no real damage to the cams (mainly intake did the scratching near cylinder 1). i think I'll be alright with salvaging the cams that are in the car now. wink1.gif

I have talked with Viper (he probably doesn't know about this incident) but he is already doing hsi best to finish port and polishing the 2.0L head I sent him. He had some euipment malfunctions and had to help out some other tibby guys n' gals in his area (nice guy..) but I'm sure I'll get it soon enough.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>As for opinions on why it failed? This is one of the items I probably will NEVER do on my own cars. It's just too pricy. if you mess it up, there goes your engine, as you know. These are my theories.</div>

it's actually REALLy easy, I am just the sort of person to run into screwed luck when the opportunty arises. ask anyone that knows me personally for more than a year straight. They all will tell you that someone should write a book about me or something ("A day in the life of the injipto magician", or something..) because CRAZY shit happens all the time. Sometimes good, sometimes horribly bad, one after the other..

anyways, nother story for another day.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>User Error

1. Installed too tight or too loose.</div>

impossible I got a belt tensioner to measure exact specifications of timing belt, power steering belt, and alternator belt tensions to exact manufacturer settings.

I tested the 3 belts' tension (by defletion) FOUR SEPERATE TIMES. once directly after installing and tensioning bolts/tensioner pulley to see if corrections were needed. Once after hand cranking the engine (with all belts attached and tensioned) a few times. Once after getting the engine running and idling until warm. And once after driving for 30+ miles (JUST BEFORE THE BELT SNAPPED).

At all times the belt was at it's correct tension. And honestly, (I know you haven't ever taken off the tensioner pulley before) but it's damn near impossible to OVER-TENSION a timing belt with out tensioner unless you got a belt that was too small or something..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>2. Belt loosened after driving due to heat (It's been in the 100's out there for the past week or 2 hasn't it?)</div>

if you are implying the belt expanded or something due to heat and loosened, these belts are supposed to be designed to NOT do that.

Besides it's been 114degrees in PHOENIX. I live in Prescott nearly ONE NAUTICAL MILE above Sea Level. It has been in the 60's!!!!!!! Due to overcast conditions and thunderstorms. And when it's clear outside and no clouds, it's only 85-95. No way it shattered to pieces because of global warming...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>3. Belt loosened due to a tensioner issue. Shit, weren't you having an issue with one of the pulleys? The idler or something? Have you popped that off yet?</div>

impossible Because if you look at the pictures the belt is shredded to pieces and the tensioner is still in place. I <u>HAD</u> tensioner issues. I fixed it with the help of a helicoil, now the bolt holding the tensioner in place and tensioned is stronger than before and so are the threads. No way that was the problem..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>4. Timing issue.</div>

Timing <u>BELT</u> issue.
wink1.gif

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>MFR or Kspec Error

1. Belt off balance? I don't know if this is even possible, but if it is, <span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><u>you could have gotten a "silver bullet" belt. You know, one in a hundred thousand that make it out of QC and destroys an engine.</u></span></div>

This is EXACTLY what i think happened. Despite commen sense, EVERY time i get screwed or something bad happens involving kspec or their products I STILL continue to support them and their products. I don't know if anyone has ever installed a timing belt from them before and had it shatter, but maybe this one was the exception (out of one thousand, or one hundred thousand...)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>2. Shoddy build on belt. Do you have any #'s from it that we can check on for you?</div>

Did you see the pictures? LOL

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>3. Wrong item included. This IS possible, but I think most of the belts are even identical. I DO know that in Korea, they have some different pulleys than us (Hence why the pulley kits always had problems with belt types). The whole "Rev A." thing is only a term developed really by the folks here as far as I know man, it's possible that they have similar 'differences' in their tibs builds too, but I have no idea what they are.</div>
I don't think this is the case. Even if there was a difference between a beta1 timing belt(my car) and a beta2 (hypothetically, the belt I got) timing belt it would only be differences in circumference(length) or width(maybe wider or skinner cam/idler/tensioner/crank pulleys). But nothing that would cause it to KNOW
<div align='center'> "Oh NOEZ!!! You put me on a beta1 I am made for beta2's so i am gonna destroy myself and your engine in the process..." </div>

LOL..
rolleyes.gif

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>4. I'm misinformed. I've been told numerous times that everything we sell is direct OEM from Mobis. I'm not in Korea so I can't verify that, but I know everything I've bought and recieved is. Someone could be lying to me and we could be selling parts with substandard qualities. I hope not, and tend to lean away from this theory, not just becasue I'm part of the company, but because of the very low rate of issues we've had with OEM parts. The #1 OEM part we have issues with is, if you belive it, Tuscani Emblems.</div>

It was marked with green ink in korean words and said HMC on it a couple times. Unless they went through the trouble of falsifying HMC marks and making up korean words no one would understand, i'm pretty sure they sent me a factory HMC belt..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Other.

1. I was just doing some googling and it seems that some rubber based timing belts are very sensitive to oils, antifreeze, or lubricants, but only at VERY high temperatures. Didn't you have a hose explode in your bay some time ago? Power Steering maybe? Just an idea.

The main stuff I just ran across looking at Premature Timing Belt Failures are this.

1. Improper Tensioner adjustment or failure to replace the tensioner/idler pulleys.

2. Fluid contact on belt with high heat.

There are a bunch of TSB's on DSM motors about this too.

Anyways, just some ideas man. It sucks that it happened at all. I'll do some checking on an engine. Any prefrences?</div>

Thanks for looking this up. The 12ft. power steering fluid gusher exploded onto the timing belt cover (never touched the timing belt) but it did get onto the accessory belts. All belts "contaminated" were throughly cleaned. So if your "google-theory" is right the accessory belts should have been the ones to prematurely disintegrate...


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>BTW, you can post on our forums and probably at LEAST get a refund for the belt kit.</div>

I will find the time to do this (with pics) eventually..

faithofadragon

well to me it looks like the outside of the belt failed...i still see all the teeth on the belt

'treezy

You are exactly right. The belt split in half BY LAYERS. The bottom layer (in contact with the crank and cam pulleys = notched surfaces) is still intact (still has grooves)

...but the top layer (in contact with idler and tensioner = smooth surfaces) started to UNTHREAD itself.

look at this picture where I am flipping the POS timing belt off..
PICTURE OF TIMING BELT

you can see the inside layer (bottom layer) still sorta useable, no damage done, notches still there. The mayhem occured on the outer/upper layer..
=(

REDZMAN

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Patreezy @ Jul 3 2006, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Thank you Jeremy for your opinions. i wish we could talk face to face, I hate this interneat-o sh!t..</div>

More ideas than anything else man, I'm not the most knowledgable here, you knokw that. And as for talking, my phone works...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I'm an unsure of whether or not I can put 2.0L cams in a 1.8L revA tiburon (with a 2.0L head) but 1.8L block AND STROKE.</div>

I can't see how this would be a problem.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I have talked with Viper (he probably doesn't know about this incident) but he is already doing hsi best to finish port and polishing the 2.0L head I sent him. He had some euipment malfunctions and had to help out some other tibby guys n' gals in his area (nice guy..) but I'm sure I'll get it soon enough.</div>

He's a great guy, contact him and let him know what happened.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>it's actually REALLy easy, I am just the sort of person to run into screwed luck when the opportunty arises. ask anyone that knows me personally for more than a year straight.</div>

Hah! Dude, balancing your own tires is easy, I'm not doing that either. LOL Someone else is going to fix their messup on my car.

I know you've had problems, the brakes, evap too right?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>impossible I got a belt tensioner to measure exact specifications of timing belt, power steering belt, and alternator belt tensions to exact manufacturer settings.</div>

Is it possible that something came loose?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>And once after driving for 30+ miles (JUST BEFORE THE BELT SNAPPED).</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>At all times the belt was at it's correct tension. And honestly, (I know you haven't ever taken off the tensioner pulley before) but it's damn near impossible to OVER-TENSION a timing belt with out tensioner unless you got a belt that was too small or something..</div>

That's another issue though, a belt that's too small you couldn't get on there.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>if you are implying the belt expanded or something due to heat and loosened, these belts are supposed to be designed to NOT do that.</div>

No, I was just throwing ideas out from the top of my head.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Besides it's been 114degrees in PHOENIX. I live in Prescott nearly ONE NAUTICAL MILE above Sea Level. It has been in the 60's!!!!!!! Due to overcast conditions and thunderstorms. And when it's clear outside and no clouds, it's only 85-95. No way it shattered to pieces because of global warming...</div>

LOL It didn't shatter, but I also said I didn't know for sure where you lived in AZ.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>impossible Because if you look at the pictures the belt is shredded to pieces and the tensioner is still in place. I <u>HAD</u> tensioner issues. I fixed it with the help of a helicoil, now the bolt holding the tensioner in place and tensioned is stronger than before and so are the threads. No way that was the problem..</div>

See, I remember reading that thread where you were going to drill out the hole and such, that's why I'm wondering if the tensioner was off center or slightly canted. enough to make the belt walk off or jump at higher RPM's. What speed were you doing when it went? What type of driving?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I don't know if anyone has ever installed a timing belt from them before and had it shatter, but maybe this one was the exception (out of one thousand, or one hundred thousand...)
Did you see the pictures? LOL</div>

Yeah, we've sold a ton of them allready. Only issues have been folks ordering the wrong kits for the wrong car, or getting belts for the opposite kind of pulleys (V Belts, Ribbed, ect...). Since Hyundai seems to have just thrown on whatever set of pulleys matched it's PS & water pumps at the time, everyone seems to have a different pulley setup.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>It was marked with green ink in korean words and said HMC on it a couple times. Unless they went through the trouble of falsifying HMC marks and making up korean words no one would understand, i'm pretty sure they sent me a factory HMC belt..</div>

I saw the markings in your picture of the other belts, I was thinking that you might still be able to see the markings.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Thanks for looking this up. The 12ft. power steering fluid gusher exploded onto the timing belt cover (never touched the timing belt) but it did get onto the accessory belts. All belts "contaminated" were throughly cleaned. So if your "google-theory" is right the accessory belts should have been the ones to prematurely disintegrate...</div>

Right, but is there anywhere that it could have pooled up and gotten on your new belt? Or maybe one of the pulleys causing it to slip? Just shooting ideas here. This all happened before or after you replaced the belts?

I'll go looking at some engines now that I know where you are mang.

I just talked to Viper...

viper966: too muhc tension or not enough will shred a belt
REDZMAN74: What else can do that to a belt?
viper966: a rogue bolt
REDZMAN74: True.
REDZMAN74: Anything else you can think of?
viper966: no

Just thought I'd put that in there for you mang.

'treezy

LOL, thanks. I think David's already found one for me mang, but if you can beat $700 for a complete 2.0L with manual tranny (and doesn't matter if it's in ABQ, I'll come get it. )

but if you REALLY want to help, you can help me find a daily in the meantime (cause the cyl head won't be back from Viper until... wel, ask him.) The bmw 2002 you saw in those pictures is now the roomate's property. The Porsche 911 (shared) is sold to a man in Washington (for WAY more than it's worth, LOL) and will be transported there by the end of the week.

I just need something for like $500 bucks that will RUN. And CONTINUE to RUN for about 6 months or so. I don't really give a effin crap about A-track/CD/Sirius, shit i dun even care if it has a windshield (gotta love "NO LAWS-Arizona")...

But it has to be CHEAP and in the state of Arizona (or maybe NM) or any state if it's FREE! wink1.gif
Help a brotha out?
(I'm already considering a 91 T-bird, just gotta replace the head gaskets on it and drive er' back to AZ).
=)

Regit

Wow ,..thats a real ass kicker 02.gif I can feel your pain, specially when tryin to fix stuff on the roadside(been there) sucks bad!! but great diy!! doesnt ease the pain though..