supercow

it sucks, but I'm no economist. Anyways the only way out of this crapper is cutting gov. spending, increase taxes, and to get people buying stuff.

http://www.rdtiburon.com/index.php?showtopic=29073&hl=

majik

raising taxes? How will that help encourage consumer spending?
Cut government spending? The government spends more on U.S. companies than anyone else... a decrease in government spending means even lower GDP, which will cause profits to drop even more and MORE U.S. companies filing for bankruptcy, meaning less jobs for Americans.

Gas prices have dropped. That's the biggest factor, and the expense that people see on a daily basis. It's ridiculously low right now. In Kansas City, people are paying $1.41 per gallon for gas ($0.36 of that is taxes! which makes pre-tax gas prices at $1.05!!).

To increase consumer spending, we need to raise confidence levels and get people thinking positive, happy thoughts so they can fly with tinkerbell's dust. To increase confidence, we need to get the stock market back to at least "normal" levels. Retirement accounts need to bounce back. I hate to say it, because I don't want it to happen, but keeping these ignorant companies afloat does make sense. I wish they would put regulations on executive bonuses and salaries for each company they 'bail out'

Winter months are darker, they come with inclement weather, and people generally aren't as happy as they are when it's sunny and bright outside. I don't see things getting much better anytime this winter, maybe closer to Spring (March/April).

On another note.... consumer spending IS low, retailers are dropping likes flies (Circuit City, Linen's n Things, GAP, etc.), and businesses are suffering just like the rest of us. The positive in all of this? Anyone with a little extra cash might be able to find really low prices on stuff. LCDs are dropping to $800 for 46" and expected to get lower (partially because of Sanyo/LG pleading guilty to price fixing). Unfortunately, most of us don't have the extra cash to spend.

Sparticus

oooooh taxes. little fact about the democratically controlled state of Massachusetts (probably the biggest known democratic state in the union).

one of the ballot questions this election was to eliminate the sales tax (5%). one big reason for wanting it is because New Hampshire has no salestax and a lot of the money is being spent in NH stores. The huge opponents of the repeal of the state tax (which ended up not passing by a landslide) was because it would force other fees to go up.

It hasn't even been a month since the election. Mass Highway (the turnpike) is increasing tolls and possibly putting up more booths. Subway stations are increasing parking. Subways are increasing fares. It will now cost more to register and re-register your car. And now they're planning on raising the gas tax in this state. All of this is in the past 3 weeks. Guess it really didn't matter about sales tax, everything is going up anyways. I love this state. eyeroll.gif



My job is commission based. My paycheck has been less and less every pay period than it has ever been. Its so hard right now for me to support the economy because the economy isn't supporting me. I'm losing out twice. I don't have the money to spend on bills (let alone on "wants") and people aren't spending money in my store because they are also broke. I'm feelin it twice and it sucks ass.


this proposed bailout is a fvckin joke. someone save me drillsergeant.gif

majik

yeah... I don't see a lot of that stuff so it doesn't cross my mind. I don't use mass-transit, I don't have to pay for parking, we don't have toll roads, and I don't have the little daily costs that most do up in the northeast.

Doesn't Mass. have almost the highest fuel tax, aside from California? Mass. seems to be one of the most screwed up states from what I've read online (never been there personally).

Tennessee doesn't have an income tax, but we do have a state and county sales tax. For me, it's 9.75%... but I'd rather have sales tax than income tax. At least with sales tax, you're only taxed when you spend (so saving money is easier).

lawnchaircrew

I'm actually surprised to see that there are people that arent completely ignorent to this. Majiktib, you're 100% right.. this whole mess was started by people like barney frank and Barak Obama who forced banks to make these risky loans in the first place. Then Obama had the nerve to lie to everyone telling them that it was the Bush Admin that created this mess. It wasn't Bush! It was the Democrat led senate, Barrack himself and his cronies.

Sparticus

i'm sorry.... i meant the ballot question was to repeal the INCOME tax (which is 5.3%). not the sales tax. i'm a dumbass. no idea what i was thinkin when i got home after work. oops

but my point is still slightly valid since new hampshire also does not have income tax.

i just looked it up, mass is actually below the national average for fuel tax

majik

eh... the democrats didn't force them to do anything, they just allowed them to do it. The real problems are groups like ACORN and government officials that support the same ideas. Hell, the problem dates back even to Bush Sr. (possibly Reagan?) where the idea of getting people into homes was the best thing for the economy. It was a huge benefit, but it just got out of hand and we let every/anybody buy whatever they wanted.

I still have many friends/family still living in Los Angeles, and they've seen this disaster coming for several years. When normal, regular $60,000 people start getting approved for $600,000+ homes, there's going to be a problem somewhere.

(fyi, a $600,000 home over 30 years could be between a $4,500-$6,000 mortgage payment monthly, which comes to $60k annually).

Edit: Your post makes more sense now Spart. And you're right, it's Connecticut that I was thinking about. They're second only behind California (CA = $0.64/gal. tax and Conn. = $0.625/gal. where Mass = $0.42)

http://www.tennesseegasprices.com/tax_info.aspx

supercow

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (majikTib @ Nov 21 2008, 10:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>raising taxes? How will that help encourage consumer spending?
Cut government spending? The government spends more on U.S. companies than anyone else... a decrease in government spending means even lower GDP, which will cause profits to drop even more and MORE U.S. companies filing for bankruptcy, meaning less jobs for Americans.</div>

cut gov. spending - get out of iraq, that was easy!

raise taxes on the extremely weathly I think the # being tossed around was those earning >250k a year. Increase taxes on inheritance and gifts. I agree if you increase taxes on the poor and middle class it's not going to help anything. They will just have to cut back on spending and hurt the economy further.

get people buying stuff - temporarily suspend capital gains tax, stocks and real estate business will be flooded, great for everyone.

The goverment got to their record deficit the same way anyone gets into debt, spending more than they took in. Now to get out they have to reverse it.

HyundaiKitCoupe

GM spokesman Tom Wilkinson said on Friday GM decided to return the aircraft because of a “really aggressive cutback in travel.�

Ford said they are required to fly in luxury Jets for security reasons.

A Chrysler spokesman said the automaker also leases or charters jets. He, however, declined to comment on whether the company was rethinking the use of private jets for executive travel, saying it was a “private matter.�

Ford did not have an immediate comment on its corporate jet policy. According to a regulatory filing, Ford’s Alan Mulally took in a total compensation last year of $22.8 million including $752,203 for his personal use of the company's jet, as well as personal use of the jet by his wife, children and guests "to ease the burden of Mr. Mulally moving to Southeast Michigan and away from his family in Seattle."

Hahahaha. Caught like John Edwards.

tibbytib

+1 for Supercow. fing02.gif The lower middle class is the foundation of this country. Many of us make up that economical demographic. Just like any foundation, if its weak, then the stucture becomes unstable. Our middle class is hurtin bad, and as a result is spending less and less, in turn, causing the problems that we are seeing on the news today. Granted, thats not the only reason these companies are in the trouble they are in. Alot of if is there own fault and poor, borderline criminal manipulation our financial and tax laws.

As already stated, taxes need to implemented on the wealthy, companies asking for bailouts need to be regulated in some way, be it part of their bailout agreement with us, the tax payers who are bailing them out, and the middle class needs to regain confidence in the market. The market will not become stable until the middle class is able to start spending and creating economic growth again.