REDZMAN

Very true. If I remember correctly, F1's and the like use brake pads that wear rather quickly, so they don't have to have slots/vents to clean off the glaze. Our cars are daily driven, and we have brake pads that last for 50K miles.

rallyman

Not that I completely disagree with the points being put forward here, it is pointless to try to compare our brakes to that of an F1 car. They don't even use metal brake rotors, I believe they are a ceramic composite and are designed to work at vey high temperature. In fact they need a very high temperature to even function correctly.

The only similarity is that their function is to slow and stop the vehicle. The materials and technologies used are so far apart that comparison is meaningless.

Lots of good information has been presented here though.

majik

what about this thought process....

Take a block of cheese. Put it on a regular ceramic plate at a 60 degree angle. It slides right down.

Take a block of cheese. Put it on a cheese grater at a 60 degree angle. The holes/slots help grab the cheese and provide more resistance and ability to stop the cheese.

????????????????????????????????????????

KeWLKaT

Majik that works for SLOTS.

Corssdrills however do not have a structure which 'grinds' the pads.

DTN::

How am I giving you opinions? You keep saying this: it helps for cooling. It helps for cooling. Where is your factual data? I gave you a result that DS rotors have around 2/3 of the mating surface between rotor and pad.

Listen. Do you have any racing experience? FYI I have been racing and building custom cars since 2 years now on cars made from scratch. We are one of the most top ranked teams worldwide between engineering universities, and that's because we get it right. And we have tried the crossdrilling thing before, but actual data we picked up back in my first season with them proved to us that they are crap.

For those who say you can't compare F1 brakes to regular brakes:

A material will always be a material. If you can drill a ''metal'' rotor, why wouldn't you drill a carbon rotor? BTW guys CARBON = METAL, just a FYI. So stop saying those cars have non-metallic rotors, lol.

Therefore, if drilling would be beneficial nothing stops them from drilling carbon rotors. But they don't do it. Why? Because they are useless.


WHAT YOU GUYS are misunderstanding:

Stop comparing OEM with DS! I am trying to compare DS with Plain performance rotors! If you haven't had OE replacement plain rotors instead of OE replacement DS rotors, then you can't compare.

stauf

I ain't touchin this topic other then to say the following..

Carbon is not Metal.. It does improve the strength of metal if processed right, but it is not metal. Otherwise this statement would be true: What our engines exhaust is metal. Which is false.

Plain jane vs ds vs better quality plain jane.. I've got 45k on stock rotors, they're warped and notched like hell but they still function.

The real question is what do you want, what do you like, what will you pay for. Spend your money on what You want, if you like it, great, if not, you know better for next time.

Now, go take a look at Porche's 911 Rotors, they're drilled, but not like you would typically see. Look at the Aston Martin Vantage, their rotors are slotted, again not like you would typically see.

So seeing as how two cars, both made to be 'driven', with a pricetag of over 100k, there must be 'something' to drilling and slotting, however by observation, it must be done correctly. Although bear in mind the repair cost of both and the viewpoint, "the more it costs, the more they can pay to fix it" How often do you see a cheap car in the shop vs an expensive one...

Adios...

majik

he's right, carbon is a non-metal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon - see table to the right:

Name, symbol, number: carbon, C, 6
Chemical series: nonmetals
Group, period, block: 14, 2, p

But, just because Porsche puts drilled rotors on the car doesn't mean it's that much more "performance." Probably 80% of those who buy a Porsche have little understanding of drilled vs. slotted vs. BBK vs. stock.... but they SEE the big drilled rotors and think "wow - those must be good, I don't see those on Fords or Hyundais"

They might provide more stopping power. They might be designed to be very effective, but don't forget their main focus is to sell cars and to differentiate themselves from the "norm"

Mad-Machine

There is a small bit of misinformation floating in all this. Even modern pads outgas beyond the break in period. It may not be as much as during the break in period or as bad as asbestos pads, but they still outgas. It is quite possible to bake ALL glue out of a pad with a few hot laps.. when that happens, the pad literally will fall apart from the backing.

I do agree that drilled rotors are old tech. I would go with performance solid, dimpled, or slotted.

You also have to realise something about F1.. a lot of their rules are made to keep the cars evenly matched, even if means it slows all the cars down. This means that many of the comparisons between real life driving and F1 are total bunk.

tdonnell

This is a hell of an argument, and from what I have read, there is some mis-information or lack of knowledge here.

As far as I know, F1 cars use pads that are composed of very high concentrations of metal, much higher than that of a street car. These rotors require a few hard stops to get heated up and start performing well. They NEED a large amount of heat to operate properly, more heat than a street car's pads would need. This is why when purchasing race composition pads the companies mention 'warm up time'; of course this chews up the rotors/pads quickly, but they replace all of that after a race. Also, F1 cars have some serious ducting going to their brake assemblies to cool them extremely well, not usually found on your average street car.

And oh, how the hell does the gas get from the pad to the vent in-BETWEEN the sides of the rotor? It just goes through the contact face? LOL.

The point of the drills/slots is to let the gas that forms between the PAD and the ROTOR surface get out, thus reducing fade. Granted you lose some surface area, which usually requires you to push on the pedal harder if using the same calipers and rotor sizes, especially with drilled AND slotted rotors (WAY overkill).

Also, if you think about it, drilled rotors acutally have more surface area than plain rotors, because the holes are like metal cylinders, and the surface area of the cylinder is larger than that of the diameter of the hole, not to mention allowing the air that the vents in-between the rotor surfaces gather to get through the surfaces themselves and to the pads. This increase in surface area/heat sink material if you will, more than compenstates for the loss of mass.

It is a proven fact that drilling or slotting an oem sized rotor increases fade resistance by letting the gases emitted by the pads at high temps escape and by increasing the cooling ability of the rotor via increased surface area (at least to the air, not the contact area with the pad). Otherwise, why the hell would people waste their money on them!

I don't know if I confused anyone, but that is what I know, and all I ask is:

If solid rotors were better than drilled OR slotted rotors on the street, then WHY THE HELL would they come STOCK on a large percentage of high performance vehicle in the market today?! i.e., the corvette, nearly all porsche models including the carrera GT (carbon fiber rotors), lamborghinis, ferraris, aston martins, amg mercedes benz's, etc. If I had to trust someone, it would be the manufacturers of all these cars and the engineers that designed/tested them, not someone who claims to know what he THINKS is better, and has little experience on the subject when compared to all of these auto makers and actual track racers that have seat time with the different types of rotors/cooling designs.

I personally am going to install solid rotors in replacement of my XG350 drilled rotors if I ever NEED to replace them. Just to see the difference for myself.

Sorry if I angered anyone with my post, but it is my opinion, and I felt it needed to be stated.

netsniper

Wow the point of the novel for NHRA professional drag racing guidelines is?

DTN

^^RTFT