Double fuel rail
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 575
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Double fuel rail
I'm going turbo soon and I'm trying to figure out which route I want to take. I did some searching and found a few people that have done a double fuel rail setup on the old ha.com, so I know its possible.
First, I'll give a lil background - I have all the mods listed in my sig, I'm getting the 2.5" exhaust from Rick, SS equal length turbo manifold from Tim (I'll be contacting you about the rest of the setup soon wink1.gif ), an SMT-6 will be at my door Tuesday, DIY wideband O2 kit in a week or so (I'll post more on that later), GSX fuel pump ready to install, intercooler+other misc. turbo parts, and I'm leaning towards t3 super 60 turbo. I'll be running low boost to start (~5psi), then slowly move up to 10psi on stock internals. I'll up the boost later on when I can change the pistons+rods on my current engine or build a different engine to drop in.
Now, on the double fuel rail, I want tunability and upgradability. I've read numerous times our ECU isn't very friendly to tuning, and if the SMT-6 is controlling 4 extra injectors, that gets around that problem. I want to stay away from a 5th injector setup because I want to make sure every cylinder is getting an even distribution of fuel, and also it wouldn't be as upgradable (I think). I have an extra intake manifold, so that will keep my car running while I work on this. How hard would this setup be? What would I need (another fuel rail and injectors, tuning, I know) to run it properly? Also, would I be able to run it full time? I don't think a sudden jolt of fuel would be best if I turn these injectors on only when boost hits. I'm not familiar with the SMT-6 yet, would I be able to turn down the stock fuel and turn up the extra injectors at the same time? Thanks in advance wink1.gif
First, I'll give a lil background - I have all the mods listed in my sig, I'm getting the 2.5" exhaust from Rick, SS equal length turbo manifold from Tim (I'll be contacting you about the rest of the setup soon wink1.gif ), an SMT-6 will be at my door Tuesday, DIY wideband O2 kit in a week or so (I'll post more on that later), GSX fuel pump ready to install, intercooler+other misc. turbo parts, and I'm leaning towards t3 super 60 turbo. I'll be running low boost to start (~5psi), then slowly move up to 10psi on stock internals. I'll up the boost later on when I can change the pistons+rods on my current engine or build a different engine to drop in.
Now, on the double fuel rail, I want tunability and upgradability. I've read numerous times our ECU isn't very friendly to tuning, and if the SMT-6 is controlling 4 extra injectors, that gets around that problem. I want to stay away from a 5th injector setup because I want to make sure every cylinder is getting an even distribution of fuel, and also it wouldn't be as upgradable (I think). I have an extra intake manifold, so that will keep my car running while I work on this. How hard would this setup be? What would I need (another fuel rail and injectors, tuning, I know) to run it properly? Also, would I be able to run it full time? I don't think a sudden jolt of fuel would be best if I turn these injectors on only when boost hits. I'm not familiar with the SMT-6 yet, would I be able to turn down the stock fuel and turn up the extra injectors at the same time? Thanks in advance wink1.gif
Senior Member
Joined: May 2006
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Vehicle: 2001 Hyundai Tiburon
You really won't need a double fuel rail most likely... I don't see why you would want one. The stocker flows enough for probably 400WHP (GK fuel rails flow for 500WHP) and the T3 Super 60 if you look at the compressor map is only good to around 300-320 to the wheels. Four larger injectors is more than enough for that setup... I don't see you needing that.
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That is not the point that will flow enough for 400whp, the problem is you cannot trick the ecu to run the larger injector, cause the ecu will pull the car lean. Also you will hit fuel cut through the ecu aswell,
So combat this without going standalone is to run the 4 stockers off the ecu and it will act and drive normal, then you use the SMT-6 to control the additional 4 and the ecu has no clue about those so it is happy and you can add as much fuel as you want under boost, cause the SMT is using a MAP sensor to control the 4 extra injectors. Thus you can tune the lean spots out the ECU won't freakout under boost and pull lean.
I plan on doing a full write up on this as soon as I get mine done.
So combat this without going standalone is to run the 4 stockers off the ecu and it will act and drive normal, then you use the SMT-6 to control the additional 4 and the ecu has no clue about those so it is happy and you can add as much fuel as you want under boost, cause the SMT is using a MAP sensor to control the 4 extra injectors. Thus you can tune the lean spots out the ECU won't freakout under boost and pull lean.
I plan on doing a full write up on this as soon as I get mine done.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,722
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Vehicle: 2001 Hyundai Tiburon
Bleh.. I would rather cough up the extra 400-600 for a standalone... never really seen this setup done or seen results... I guess I'll take a look at it when its done. Tibby ECU = smart little sucker. I've never really turbocharged a not from factory turbocharged ECU so I'm not quite used to it.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Vehicle: 2001/Hyundai/Tiburon
you did see this right?
http://www.hyundaiaftermarket.com/noncgi/u...t=000462#000002
xtremepc is a genious.
http://www.hyundaiaftermarket.com/noncgi/u...t=000462#000002
xtremepc is a genious.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 575
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Yep I saw that, there's someone else on NT.com with a dual fuel rail setup, I sent him an email already for more info. If Xtremepc had an email posted I'd send him one too wink1.gif
So, you need a MAP sensor wired up to the SMT-6 ? Would a beta2 MAP sensor work?
So, you need a MAP sensor wired up to the SMT-6 ? Would a beta2 MAP sensor work?
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,832
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From: Fort Erie, Ontario
Vehicle: 2004 Acura TL
This is great. I'm at the same stage. I need something to control a/f as well, and have been back and forth on the SMT-6 or E-manage. And I have just recently heard of the SAFC fuel dip problem.
And hamhead, if you go standalone you say good-bye to emissions certification. I know here in ontario if you lose your OBDII output you lose the ability to drive your car legally. So cost plus no OBDII = no standalone for a daily driver.
And hamhead, if you go standalone you say good-bye to emissions certification. I know here in ontario if you lose your OBDII output you lose the ability to drive your car legally. So cost plus no OBDII = no standalone for a daily driver.
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Joined: Feb 2005
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just a small update for you guys
car is still running strong as ever
its been over a year and 10k miles since i did my turbo setup
8k have been at 20+ psi i run 20psi (320 hp) on a daily basis
and crank it up on track days (need lsd bad)
lots of people said twin fuel rails will never work
and never be able to tune correctly and achieve
acceptable hp levels well i did not listen i said i will
try it if does not work at least i tried and
as soon i get some real pistons and a lsd i will
shoot for more hp but right now its pointless
i still have not broke a trans rolleyes.gif
somtimes you have just go for it to see if works
and i have had no issue's every one who is in the car seen
that goes for a ride in my car cant believe how smooth it runs
for all mods they swear i have a standalone
i am still around just been
busy with other stuff but if you need any
help or have questions my email is
xtremetib@comcast.net
car is still running strong as ever
its been over a year and 10k miles since i did my turbo setup
8k have been at 20+ psi i run 20psi (320 hp) on a daily basis
and crank it up on track days (need lsd bad)
lots of people said twin fuel rails will never work
and never be able to tune correctly and achieve
acceptable hp levels well i did not listen i said i will
try it if does not work at least i tried and
as soon i get some real pistons and a lsd i will
shoot for more hp but right now its pointless
i still have not broke a trans rolleyes.gif
somtimes you have just go for it to see if works
and i have had no issue's every one who is in the car seen
that goes for a ride in my car cant believe how smooth it runs
for all mods they swear i have a standalone
i am still around just been
busy with other stuff but if you need any
help or have questions my email is
xtremetib@comcast.net