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BEWARE 75 SHOT!!!
WANT A 75 SHOT???
this will make you think twice BTW i have the random special, HVE ceramic coated headers, and a 2 1/4 exhaust with a stock cat and a 2" glasspack,... yes its corrupted I do have the eclipse turbo fuel pump i was running(ZEX) a 75 shot 38 nozzle in the no2 and 32 in the fuel last night, at the track, i start racing and the vaccum line connected to the fuel regulator came lose, while on my shift to 2nd gear,... i hear a clink (which turned out to be that the vaccum hose from the ZEX box to the fuel regulator came loose) after that INSTANT POWER LOSS i got scared and coasted the rest of the 1/4 mile check engine light came on instantly after it happened i checked it on randoms datalogger and it reported a miss fire on 1st cyl so im like kool 2nd run i begin,... some where on 2nd gear i get another check engine light,... we once again check it,... missfire 2nd cyl so as im waiting for my 3rd run,... i start the car up again and it starts idling rough,... me and random checked it,... 2 plugs melted,... (random will post pics later) we are now worried that the ceramic part of the spark plug is somewhere near the piston and if it has been crushed by the piston it will slowly eat my piston rings and my car will slowly die a horrible death sad.gif after we replaced the plugs,... the car made it back home (1 hour drive up hills) fine and everything normal,.... for now sad.gif I DID NOT RUN THE CAR IN THE REDLINE,... after many practices with the 65 and 55 shot,... i shift normally between 6400-6700 i tested the car 3 days before and no problem with the 75 after the first run,... i tested it on 1st gear just to make sure,... it ran beautifully question is??? Am i smoking crack and i actually did run in the redline??? Am i actually at the 180WHP limit for the fuel system??? Did the vaccum hose cause me to run lean??? BIG QUESTION??? probability of the tiny ceramic part of the 1 degree colder NGK v spark plugs completely F-ing up my pistons and causing me to end my racing days??? Everybody running nitrous,... for safe measure,.. put 2 clamps on your vaccum hoses,... and stay away from the 75 shot NITROUS IS NO JOKE |
*warning*.
Dry kits are the crappiest nitrous systems available. It is widely known that the "nitrous pressure regulators" lockup, jam, or pop the vacume hose off the fuel regulator and cause the engine to run lean... KABOOOM GOES YOUR ENGINE>.. it seems you are lucky, you just killed your spark plugs.... you didnt kill a piston, or an exhaust valve... i would go to the auto parts store, and buy a compression tester, check all of your cylinders, they should have the same amount of compression level. LET US KNOW HOW IT TURNS OUT, i want to know how your engine is REALLY doing after leaning out with a 75 shot ... thanks alot, and good luck. please throw the zex kit in the garbage, and get wet kit for your car. REGARDS: STEVE. eek.gif |
If you are really worried about your engine swallowing plug parts, it is not THAT hard to take the head off & inspect the bores...
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Hey I figured I would jump in here. I was interested in the ZEX kit myself. BUt aftee this, um, is it really safe?. I don't have too many mods on the car YET. HOwever, I don't rreally race the car. I would't plan ontaking it to the track, so I would I still be ok with the ZEX kit as long as I changed the plugs to the nitrous plugs?.....Any reccomendations? :D :cool: :D :cool:
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The same thing happend to me,but I noticed it right away and no damage was done and my plugs were fine. What i did was I went out and got braided vcaccum line and then I flared the vaccum fitting on the regulator so after I clamp it down there is no way for it to come off. And I used double clamp anywhere I could fit them. after that I sat there and pulled the **** out of them making sure they don't come off, and I have not had a problem since.
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which plugs are these? were they 2 steps colder? at 75 shot you needed
to retard the timing was this done? |
the plugs were the v power ngk ones,... they were 1 degree colder and the timing was not changed,...
dont these cars do that automatically??? i am really curious about trying the 75 shot again,... since i know deep inside the car can handle it but i fear that ceramic part somewhere in my engine causing damage as the days go,... sad.gif i will get a compression tester,... anybody know where i can get one for a decent price? |
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by Stocker:
If you are really worried about your engine swallowing plug parts, it is not THAT hard to take the head off & inspect the bores...</div> ???? sounds simple but is it really??? one question are the vpower ngk +1 degree plugs sufficient for the 75 shot??? OR should i get the ZEX plugs??? my car is a daily driver This was the first time i raced with the 75 shot,... i DID test it out on 1st and 2nd gear prior to going to the track,.... everything was fine i also tested it on 1st gear after the first incident at the track,... and everything was fine i currently have ANOTHER set of vpower ngk +1degree plugs,... what do you guys think??? i really dont want to end my racing days,... i was actually starting to get close to beating random tongue.gif wink.gif j/k |
Can i use those pictures of the fried plugs on my website ? i will give credit where it is due for using them please.
answers to some questions / comments that i have seen on this post.. 1. You do not need to retard the timing for a 75 shot on a beta engine because the factory timing advance is not radical enough to warrant any timing changes. 2. the NGK BKR6E-11 plugs are 1 stage colder than stock, and will work fine with a 75 shot wet or dry, or a turbo setup too. 3. I recommend that you upgrade to a wet kit. it will support more nitrous, and it doesnt rely on the stock injectors being pushed to 80psi .. which they were not intended to operate at.. a wet kit uses its own fuel supply mechanism therefore eliminating any lean conditions if you hit the limiter or redline in any gear... i have pictures of my timeslip up on my website now.. in the diagrams section. |
Like I mentioned before, with the ZEX kit. Make sure the hoses are clamped on there SOLID. The hose coming off is the most common failure.
Wet systems also have there disadvantages... Fuel solenoid failure.... which happens more than some people would like to know and... BOOM... especially since most wet systems run more nitrous. Then there is the nitrous/fuel exposive mixture in the intake tract... and not just in the cylinders. I have seen intake manifold "holed" and blown off of the engine. Wet systems are for the experienced and even then somethings go wrong. Jaws, you should be OK but it is also good to get a compression test. We had a bad nitrous nozzle once and it POURED nitrous around the fitting into the intake during a install/tuning run on the dyno. The car made something like 350 ftlbs of torque for 2 sec before we shut it down. The compression test was OK after this near disaster. |
i was using those exact same plugs,... but since it is a 75 shot,.. dont you think 2 degrees would be best??
im not sure about the ZEX plugs,... i dunno how good they would do against a 75 and a daily driver has anybody ever tried I/H/E with a 75??? my car is a 5 speed,... and i should be, if not already, near the fuel limit does anybody know what a 5 speed beta with i/h/e has dynoed at??? buying a wet system now,... is too late,... im a full time student and i really cant shell out another 500 for a wet system who else has fried their spark plugs??? am i the only idiot that has achieved this??? i am really paranoid about the tiny ceramic POS stuck in my engine |
Jaws021,
Let me know how your car is going. Sorry about that happening. I would really think that you should get a few gauges before racing again. Talk with Random about the gauges. 75 shot might be able to handle the stock timing but I am really not sure about it. I would rather see you getting one of the MSD timing systems made for running nitros. Also trying to get your window rpm running just to keep you away from hitting the rev limiter. I don't know about it but using the bottle in 1st gear seems shady to me. 1st gear is so short. Looking forward to seeing you at Palmdale again soon. |
When it comes to the timing I called ZEX and they told me the tib has a knock sensor and would adjust the timing if any detonation was present. As for the peices of the plugs I would not worry about them, they got blown out the exhaust within seconds of them coming apart. Just hope none of the exhaust valves were damaged, a leak down test would let you know if there was any valve damage.
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hmmm....
it is a widely held misconception that the knock sensor just backs off timing... on many cars, it also backs off the injector pulse width and sets the car on LIMP MODE. therefore, you can still possibly damage your engine if you ping... |
The car shouldn't go into limp mode when it's in open loop, but you never know. In either case it was the loose hose at 75 shot that did it, I would also check all the fittings again. Jaws go down to 65 and make sure every thing runs ok there then try and go back to 75. Also what fuel were you using!! never trust pump gas to actually be the octane ratted, always put some Octane boost in it to make sure.
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Jaws021 I hope all ii well with your car.
FordFasteR exactly what "wet system" are you using? |
sorry for not answering the question earlier brendan
i was running 91 octane with an 3/4 of an octane boost designed for a whole 20 gallon tank a thing about downgrading to a 65,... i really cant at this point since i did buy this kit used the nozzle was almost stripped,... and thanx to me and my experiments,... i have pretty much stripped the nozzle that goes into the intake(5 inches from the tb) i will be using 2 clams for EVERY hose now,... random told me about a vaccum hose clamps,... so im going to listen to him. the bottle is out of my car for now,... once i get the exhaust done, im going to be getting it dynoed,... just to make sure everything is ok g60: i will be getting a a/f gauge now, and a fuel pressure one,... which reminds me i better get that first before i clamp down everything i will be going back to palmdale, since i am not satisfied with a 16.5 on 2 cyl. :mad: i bought a comperession tester like fordfaster suggested, so i will Know hopefully today or tommorow the status of my pistons thanx guys for your help and i especially thank random,... if it wasnt for him,... i would have been camping out at palmdale or knowing me, i would have been stranded somewhere in the mountains. thanx g60 for looking over my ghetto fabulous car while we were getting the spark plugs:P BTW,... i was also aware of the knock sensor,... i thought that kept me away from detonation??? Right now im back to one degree colder plugs,... anyone suggest the expensives ass ZEX ones for a daily driver??? |
I'm thinking you should get the compression test done first. If that turns out okay, then we dyno your car and have the exhaust gas sniffer test done. (1SickG60 just had this done for $75).
Then we will know if you are running rich or lean without the Nitrous. Then we can add the bottle in for the last run on the dyno, and get the A/F reading done again. If it shows lean, it could be because all of the other additional mods, with the 75 shot are beyond the reach of the Stock fuel injectors. (I know you've already upgraded your fuel pump). The dyno test should answer all the questions. |
If any of you guys want to get your car dyno'd I went to Eurosport. As far as I know, it is $75 for an hour. I had the guys check out my motor, retarded the camshaft gear back to zero and then they did the run. The info I got was the three pulls HP and Torque (graph), HP and A/F ratio (graph), and a list of HP and A/F ratio.
The guys at Eurosport are pretty nice. I have met the owner (Raffi) at Button Willow during a SCCA race event. They are in Anaheim where the 57 fwy and 91 fwy cross. 1350 N. Hundley St. Anaheim, CA 92806 Euro Sport Accessories :cool: Animal, let me know if you are going to go there. |
And when thinking about the computer and the knock sensor being smart enough to retard the timing does not mean that the first detonation can't toast your car.
http://www.eurosportacc.com/ |
2k wagon.
i designed my own wet system for under $400 for the basic parts brand new from the local speed shop. i used a wet carb edelbrock kit, and i discarded the carb plate, and used an NOS FOGGER 2 nozzle instead... the pictures are on my website @ http://www.pcrepairworld.com/nitrousworld |
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by SickYellowG60:
Animal, let me know if you are going to go there.</div> yup,... right after i get the exhaust done imma stick with I/H/E for awhile so i want to make sure my car can handle the 75 if i do it now,... i will have to go back again once i get the exhaust done since,... more power,.... more fuel,... BOOM! lol i might even kill my engine mods there,... since my next one will probably cost me,... new injectors, SAFC, plus what ever mod im going to do, plus tuning,...$$$$$ ill let you know though |
hey folks, i just installed the new NOS bottle heater !!!
damn, that sucker works FAST! hahaha its a complete kit, comes with relay, thermostatic sensors (to shut off the heater when the bottle reaches 85) and all the wires and connectors... 14's here i come !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! smile.gif SWEEEET !!!!!!!!!!!!! next month, i'm getting the NOS remote bottle opener !!! YEEEHAAAAWWWWW no more folding the rear seat down to open the bottle.. then shutting it off every damn time i get in and out of the car.. .just flick the switch and GO ! [ February 19, 2002: Message edited by: FordFasteR ] |
ok i tested it
1st cyl 210 2nd cyl 180 3rd cyl 185 4th cyl 210 sad.gif |
thats not bad.
probly similar to stock numbers... did you test it with the gas pedal at WOT? or did you test it with the throttle body closed? if you tested it closed, your numbers may be off slightly.. i would go back and re-test it , with some frind holding the pedal down to WOT. i'm sure it wont make much diff, but you'll get more accurate numbers that way.. seems like your ok for now though. |
well hyundai reports that anything under 199 is unnacceptable
214 is the norm im considering buying a used engine now sad.gif i will test the car on sunday if the numbers stay the same,... then i can put off the engine swap until summer BTW,...isnt checking the compression at open throttle dangerous??? i disabled the fuel system while i ran the check i dont want those suckers firing,... i dont need anymore BOOMS!!!! tongue.gif |
no its not dangerous, you are supposed to disconnect all the spark plug wires from the plugs so it wont fire them smile.gif
sheesh. engine diagnostics 101. hehehe if i was you, i would not buy another engine, i would change out the pistons for forged and get some nice I beam rods.. then get some FERREA steel valves into that cylinder head.. put it all back together and spray a 100 shot all day long USING A F*CKING WET KIT FOR CHRIST SAKE ! hahahah smile.gif [ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: FordFasteR ] |
but when you do put all the plugs back,.. youll have a grip of fuel in the engine,... just doesnt seem right
i disconnected the harness from the fuel pump and everything went ok as far as the customized work,... i am still thinking about it but it would be cheaper just to get another used engine,... my engine also has 70k miles on it plus i could sell my engine afterwards |
FordfasteR,
When you said put it together and drop a 100 shot in all day long, you are joking right? I am hopping that you are at least thinking that the motor will be broken in before using nitros oxide system, right? Other wise the motor might not blow to pieces but then Jaws021 would be lossing so much oil it would be useless. Jaws021, Before you start buying a used motor why don't you just take some time to tear your motor down so that you can find out if you really need new pistons. You might only need rings and maybe honing. You can expect for the worst but don't put any money into it until you really know what is going on. FordfasteR is right though, the compression tester will not spark the fuel, no BOOM. |
engine tech 101.
you break a new engine in properly before you abuse it. THEN YOU CAN SPRAY 100 SHOT ALL DAY.. sheesh. smile.gif |
I know, it just didn't sound that you that that anyone should break in a motor. That's all I was saying.
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clutch and the differential wont like the 100 shot
i dont think the pistons will either your right sickg60,... but the thing is,... its gonna cost quite a bit just to open the sucker up lets say they open it and something is wrong,... then they fix new piston plus the bore 700bucks minimum??? i already found a couple of engine under 700 remember, my engine does have 70K miles on it so maybe getting a newer engine will give it some more juice. how hard is it to pull the head and check myself??? i rather do it myself than to pay someone 200 to do it |
With BETAs it is almost always cheaper to buy a used engine than it is to rebuild one. The general concensus of the juckyards is that no one wants to buy a Hyundai motor. I have found localy that I can buy an entire engine (from the TB down) for 500 bucks. Since most of us don't have the time tools or knowledge to rebuild our own engines we must pay others to do that. The average rebuild cost is about 1000 with labor taxes and installation. Most of us know that rebuilds can be a hit or miss thing even when done by a pro. Now I am not talking about replacing all the enternals with better forged pieces just a rebuild. He is better off getting a used engine.
[ February 21, 2002: Message edited by: DESIGN ] |
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Originally posted by JAWS 021:
ok i tested it 1st cyl 210 2nd cyl 180 3rd cyl 185 4th cyl 210 </div> well im testing it again on sunday,... by then i should know whats going on if the compression has dropped DRAMATICALLY then im getting another engine,... if not,... im keeping my current engine until summer, then ill swap it out for another one |
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